The Twitch

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cottmiler
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The Twitch

Postby cottmiler » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:52 am

Floating face down, hands by side and ankle band on, the body is happy to flick from one side to the other axially, at 0.8 sec frequency as measured by the tempo trainer. This corresponds to a stroke rate of 75 spm.

The motion is generated by a tiny twitch of the hips/core and since the body remains like a horizontal floating log then very little energy is needed to get this oscillatory movement.

It occurred to me that I should use this principle to help me do Unco with ankle band - or even normal swimming with ankle band.

So the idea is to make this tiny twitch which starts the body roll an instant before the pull starts. This saves a lot of energy since the arms are no longer fighting the inertia of starting to roll the whole body over the 90 degrees needed.

It's perfectly possible to do all this in slow motion so as to investigate the effect so long as you are able to happily remain horizontal in the water throughout the stroke cycle. All this with an ankle band on.
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nightcrawler
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Re: The Twitch

Postby nightcrawler » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:58 am

Great observation, my energy conservative technique is totally based on this principle, this technique is really an ass kicker in open water swimming races, after the first 500m the opponents start to fail but i can still maintain the 1:20 pace, moreover save energy for the last 1K and accelerate more in the last meters of a race. By this, i can maintain the 70 spm with 1:20-1:25/100m pace almost 2 hours. Bands drill facilitates to observe and discover this balance.

I m always saying, Cottmiler solved the secret of swimming. :D

One more secret: tempo trainer's mode 3 gives the stroke per minute(SPM), set it to 0.75, this stands for 75 SPM.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
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The Dodo
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Re: The Twitch

Postby The Dodo » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:57 am

cottmiler wrote:Floating face down, hands by side and ankle band on, the body is happy to flick from one side to the other axially, at 0.8 sec frequency as measured by the tempo trainer. This corresponds to a stroke rate of 75 spm.

The motion is generated by a tiny twitch of the hips/core and since the body remains like a horizontal floating log then very little energy is needed to get this oscillatory movement.

It occurred to me that I should use this principle to help me do Unco with ankle band - or even normal swimming with ankle band.

So the idea is to make this tiny twitch which starts the body roll an instant before the pull starts. This saves a lot of energy since the arms are no longer fighting the inertia of starting to roll the whole body over the 90 degrees needed.

It's perfectly possible to do all this in slow motion so as to investigate the effect so long as you are able to happily remain horizontal in the water throughout the stroke cycle. All this with an ankle band on.


Think you have "discovered" the usefulness of a "quick hip flick downwards" mentioned elsewhere on the forum some time ago - except you refer to it as a "twitch". I use it in one of my FS mini-sets minimizing explicit leg effort. Timing the "twitch" to coincide with an arm entry - the downward movement of the hip on the same side as the entering arm corresponds with the direction of body roll required for the arm about to descend to a catch, and that action offsets the associated "pushing drag" of the entering arm. If the legs are free and relaxed - a small "wiggle" is sent down the leg on the same side as the hip.

That "wiggle" produces some leg undulation, which should provide a small amount of forward motion - because the leg undulation starts with the thigh moving down (since it is closest to the down-flicking hip), then as a consequence, the lower leg rises slightly because of the relaxed knee joint and upward water pressure as the thigh returns to a neutral position. Next the raised lower leg begins to move down with the shin moving down/back for an instant. In turn the foot, which was pressed up a bit by water pressure because of the relaxed ankle as the shin moves down - does a little flick downwards to end the undulation.

I think the leg on the other side of to the hip that does the "twitch", moves in a "close" but slightly dis-organized fashion, compared with the leg on the "twitch" side.
Last edited by The Dodo on Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:04 am, edited 3 times in total.

smootharnie
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Re: The Twitch

Postby smootharnie » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:32 pm

How the hell can you float face down with arms by the side?
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Shenaram
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Re: The Twitch

Postby Shenaram » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:37 am

Right after leaving work, perhaps?
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cottmiler
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Re: The Twitch

Postby cottmiler » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:19 am

smootharnie: the front float with hands loosely by the sides last several seconds while the legs slowly drop but it is long enough to check the frequency of oscillation. A little bit of forward movement helps too.

A consistent reminder of all this was the phrase by a recent good swimmer (maybe 400im?) who said that he "sets up the correct body balance at the beginning of every lap".
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smootharnie
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Re: The Twitch

Postby smootharnie » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:48 am

To make sure we know what we are talking about,

1 Do you break the axis or not?
2 If you do break the axis, do you make this movement, say for now, this movement is only happening in the friont-baqckplane?
Unstable bridge falls to the right sideSo both legs
Image

Reversing the bridge right before power phase (= picture 1)
Image

3 If you do this movement, do you add a slight roation to the front/backplane hinge motion, so the hips leads the fall of the bridge by kciking a bit more with the normal leg instaed of the opposite leg?(so both legs do the smallamplitude dolplin , but the left kicks a bit harder than the right to let the body fall to the right for example)

I was trying this third option and it felt OK.You need the right timing to get the legs up again.
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cottmiler
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Re: The Twitch

Postby cottmiler » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:19 am

I have to admit that I have difficulty understanding the intricacies of your analyses.

If you watch Shelley as here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaf0-8Olhk8

You will be very familiar with how she keeps the body straight and horizontal and clicks it over from one side to the other with each stroke.

When I am swimming with the ankle band on, there can be no foot flapping other than a very slight dolphin kick. If I use the hand and arm to hutch the body over, it's a lot of hard work so I reckon that the twitch is needed to set the roll in motion.

An early return of the head from breathing may instigate this perhaps?

I have worked hard on a range of plank exercises which has helped me rigidify the body. But I must get horizontal in the water for the rolling log action to happily happen. The ankle band provides the discipline for this. When you swim with legs, they might go 1000 mm apart whilst your brain tells you that they are only 200 mm apart.
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cottmiler
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Re: The Twitch

Postby cottmiler » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:29 am

Regarding my comment on early head return, watch Paul Newsome at 3 minutes exact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NcXYN2 ... e=youtu.be

Notice how he really vigorously flicks the head and chest back after breathing.
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smootharnie
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Re: The Twitch

Postby smootharnie » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:32 pm

I can see he rotates his upperbody back with some punch there. The base of this movement lies in the opposite anchored leg.
I think its better to swim with both legs aligned without an ankle band and use your own muscles to press them lightly together or let them touch at least.
Otherwise the ankleband can be a crutch just like an pull buoy can become a crutch. The ankleband takes over some work that you should be doing yourself.

All this drilling stuff is interesting but I m moving more and more to the anchored arm in the water as the pivot point of my stroke. The little fall and rebouce of the preceding stroke is only there in full stroke and the timing of setting the paddle just in time to accelerate from the rebound and punch through from there is crucial to achieve optimal rhythm. You just need some level of power, a solid paddle and a punmping core to get the train moving.
Long time swimmers take this for granted, but beginners need to get over a fitness and technique bump to get there.
The small dolhin °or 2Bk plays a roll in it too take the load over and help the arms. Keeping the body just taut already halps a lot though. there aint no substitute for whole stroke in my view.

Its difficult to change things during whole stroke, so to reset these drills are good.

Being able to take your float skills into whole stroke is good too, but it isnt a solution to all problems.
Sometimes I am really balanced and feel the arms and legs are almost totally devoted to forward movement, and sometimes I feel like I am sinking and are more tensed and have to work harder.
In the end swimming in the last state isnt the most optimal or enjoyable, but isnt that much slower either.
You wont gain more than 10% from it I guess. (but it depends how far you are off the floating state swimming offcourse)

All being said, still dont understand what you mena by your twitch.

twitch (twĭch)
v. twitched, twitch·ing, twitch·es
v.tr.
To draw, pull, or move suddenly and sharply; jerk: I twitched my fishing line.
v.intr.
1. To move jerkily or spasmodically.
2. To ache sharply from time to time; twinge.
n.
1. A sudden involuntary or spasmodic muscular movement: a twitch of the eye.
2. A sudden pulling; a tug: The fish gave my line a twitch.
3. A sudden, sharp pain.

Another thing.
You say the rotation costs hardly any effort when you are horizontal anf aligned, and the other enstence you talk about it as its a lot of hard work to start the rotation?
When you did some experiments that followed the ;swimming in resonant frequency; thread you said that there was no prefered rolling frequency, only that it took more effort at high frequencies.
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cottmiler
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Re: The Twitch

Postby cottmiler » Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:15 am

Sorry smootharnie, I put your post on the "Too hard" pile. From today's swim WITH ankle band:

Paddling at very low cadence (20 spm?) I can maintain a horizontal straight body on its edge and with a tiny flick (twitch) of the hips and gentle press with the front hand, I can roll easily to the other side ready for the next pull. The starting point is the "pressing your buoy" position.

I feel that this action is right and by breathing each side as you turn, you quickly discover whether the head is going "awol". If the head is raised too high to breathe then the legs drop and the feet flap.

Today I used the tempo trainer set at 75 spm and soon discovered problems.

1) Attempting the Shelley style straight arm entry caused the feet to dolphin like crazy because I clearly wasn't rolling enough and my pull was making the legs drop. If I was to swim with no ankle band then this swim action is no good since there will be too much drag caused by the dropped legs. Oddly enough this is my fastest normal swimming cadence as shown by the stroke rate test (page 99 of PN's book).

2) Using the "bow and arrow" bent arm entry was rather better as there was less dolphining, but any dolphining is bad. I was obviously rolling onto each side better.

-0-

The conclusion is that I should lower the cadence but maintain the rigid straight body with no dolphining and then gradually get the cadence up. This needs the twitch to work at higher cadence.
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cottmiler
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Re: The Twitch

Postby cottmiler » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:28 am

We finally managed to get some footage of the "Twitch".

https://youtu.be/WjzBkV95SHM

I am flicking the body over before any significant pressure is on the pulling arm.

It needs careful viewing to see it.
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smootharnie
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Re: The Twitch

Postby smootharnie » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:55 am

TI talks about this action a lot to protect shoulders etc.
First roll, than ¨pull.
I like pulling kicking and roll together more.
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