Great coaches, great discussion.

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smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby smootharnie » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:34 am

These guys deserve their as fame as far as I can tell.
Great no-nonsense approach, always eager to learn more and evolve in their opinion.
All of it just makes a lot of sense.
You just need to understand whats the goal and the starting point of the swimmer they try to improve.
Some applies to yourself, some not. Its important to figure out what kind of swimmer you are, so you can decide whats important for you and whats not.
http://joelfilliol.com/podcast/2015/11/ ... th-busting
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cottmiler
Posts: 1398
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 1:14 pm

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby cottmiler » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:59 am

Joel says

"11. Use a band frequently. The best swimming drill there is. Do short reps with lots of rest at first. Both propulsion and body position will improve."
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smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby smootharnie » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:17 am

Did you listen to the long discusion?
they say thats their swimmers dont improve their body position, but drag the legs along in a bad body position, so ankle nad swimming is lie swimming with a drag parachute, but with a bad bodu position.
You must learn body position by ankle band, otherwise its not so good.
Drills are meant to fix swim problems in whole stroke.
On good swimmers bands dont make much of a difference, for a lot of their swimmers it doesnt improve balance and its more an arm strenghtening exercise, although it teaches constant propulsion.
You just have to figure out for yourself if its helping you or not.
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cottmiler
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Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 1:14 pm

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby cottmiler » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:25 am

I have the 1 hour 20 podcast on now, about Swim Myths.
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cottmiler
Posts: 1398
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 1:14 pm

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby cottmiler » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:47 am

The swim discussion starts at 29 mins.

Total Immersion gets slammed.

High cadence with no glide is a must.

One of the speakers likes ankle band whilst the other one prefers the parachute drag method.

They like the Finis Agility paddles.
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smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby smootharnie » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:25 pm

they go even further on the subject in the following podcast.
http://joelfilliol.com/podcast/2015/12/ ... -whitfield

I like Paulo Sousas opinions best. Agree with all the stuff he says about paddles, catching water, wrist bending and shoulder pain. Really open minded guy who makes up his own mind after testing everything.
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SharkFM
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:55 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby SharkFM » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:24 pm

smootharnie wrote:Did you listen to the long discussion?
they say that's their swimmers dont' improve their body position, but drag the legs along in a bad body position, so ankle and swimming is lie swimming with a drag parachute, but with a bad body position.
You must learn body position by ankle band, otherwise its not so good.
Drills are meant to fix swim problems in whole stroke.
On good swimmers bands don't make much of a difference, for a lot of their swimmers it doesn't improve balance and its more an arm strengthening exercise, although it teaches constant propulsion.
You just have to figure out for yourself if its helping you or not.



Note that the coach MUST understand what the purpose of the band (or drill) is, and drill that home otherwise it's kinda useless. I think band swimming is OK, but not ideal. I would rather see a flutter board strapped to the swimmer's chest. When a coach says "It works and we've done it for years" = I don't effing know why it works but we do it, so stop asking questions.

The idea of a band or board on chest, is the same:

- keep your chest down by using the shape of the pull (no lift even some lowering action)
- keep the legs up with proper posture and engaged "hollow" core (if our back is saggy you are sunk).
- stay on axis to be able to swim and breathe

You know what is really good dryland and along these lines? The TRX roll-outs and a proper suspended front plank (hold for 1-2 minutes with belly tucked in)

Quiz: Please describe what the proper use of a pull buoy is. I'll bet that 99% of triathletes and coaches don't know. And I am not sure I even know!

s.sciame
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby s.sciame » Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:44 pm

smootharnie wrote:they go even further on the subject in the following podcast.
http://joelfilliol.com/podcast/2015/12/ ... -whitfield

I like Paulo Sousas opinions best. Agree with all the stuff he says about paddles, catching water, wrist bending and shoulder pain. Really open minded guy who makes up his own mind after testing everything.


Didn't listen the whole podcast. In short, he likes paddles, says that they help improving catch & pull, they teach you to apply power in the middle of the pull rather than in the catch. They also teach you not to bend the wrist and, if your shoulders sore, you didn't use them the right way. It's your lats that have to sore instead. Right?

Salvo
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smootharnie
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby smootharnie » Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:13 pm

Right. Well, I have never had really sore lats. Must be doing something wrong ;)
And I like the agility paddles also much more than the freestyler paddles or other paddles.
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s.sciame
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby s.sciame » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:03 am

smootharnie wrote:Right. Well, I have never had really sore lats. Must be doing something wrong ;)
And I like the agility paddles also much more than the freestyler paddles or other paddles.


Ok, so Sousa's opinions on paddles make sense to me too. The only paddles I ever tried are the freestylers and I didn't even spend enough time with them, perhaps it's time to give them another try. What's the difference with the agility paddles, why do you prefer the latter?

As for the sore lats, the only way I have to really load them is to emulate Karlyn Pipes' catch&pull for 2-3k at race pace:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bPvk0paWcg

In general I like a more rounded stroke than that (eg I love Shelly Ripple's stroke in the famous Richard Quick video), but in the end it seems I always have to return to this straight underwater action do deliver my best output.

Salvo
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smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby smootharnie » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:43 pm

I dont like the hard flat plate feeling from a lot of paddles.(Havent tried much paddles though)
This one fits like a glove and only gives more pressure than without one, using a pretty natural handshape.
The positive and negative is that they need a bit of pressure to keep in place and right before the hand exit this could lead to pressing some water up ending with a straight arm water exit. Pulling your hand out the water with your elbow too soon will give trouble.
You can play around with balancing them on the edge of having some pressure or not the palmside to keep them just attached to the hand at the entry and exit.
Thats a bit like trimming a speedboat for the optimal angle.
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SharkFM
Posts: 605
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:55 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby SharkFM » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:56 am

Did a video on the pull buoy, felt like band swimming actually - but easier and faster.

You squeeze the glutes and legs in and lower that pelvis =ZOOM. Sound reasoning for it too, just look at the force balance between the buoy and lungs.

https://youtu.be/qZt1C-ygqWc

smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Great coaches, great discussion.

Postby smootharnie » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:43 am

Pull buoy between knees instead of higher already makes a lot of difference.
If your legs are aligned the place of the pull buoy shouldnt make much difference in rotation.
If your hip flexors are tight and the knees low, putting a pull beyween the knee will makes your rotating torque a lot different.
THis motovates to brring the knees in line instead of sticking out.
nice drawing skills Shark. ;)
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