Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

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woody
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby woody » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:49 pm

I could well be wrong but he seems to be talking about slowing them down before entry as being a no no.
What I meant was the sheer energy I think I'm seeing in your arms . If you were holding a ball and let it go as the arm came forward it would be going at some great speed.
I couldn't possibly throw my arm forward at that speed for long. Some time ago at squad we did some ramp tests and even at mid 70s I don't think I was using that much energy in the recovery . I just had to speed up the pause I had out front but I guess that was my coaches purpose.
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:01 am

Sprinter wrote:
woody wrote: To swim at that rate you seem to be using a lot of energy in throwing your arm forward (something that I have only just learnt to stop doing even at low stroke rates I had to stop as I ached so much after a long swim)


Throwing the arm forward seems quite essential for fast swimming, see e.g.
http://theraceclub.com/aqua-notes/avoid ... freestyle/


I am already swinging my arms with proper hip rotation, again without kicking... for long distance it provides sustainable speed and this technique seems harsh, choppy, punchy from out of the pool but in the water it feels good, and thanks to the rhythm and splash sound (pat pat pat...) it makes feel like dancing.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:20 am

26.10.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 4000 meters)
Set1: 20x75m crawl, Int:75" (avg:66", best:65")
Rcvr: 400m doggy paddle drill
Set2: 22x50m crawl, Int:50" (avg:44", best 43")
Rcvr: 400m (25 backstroke - 25 butterfly)
Set3: 24x25m crawl, Int:25" (avg:21", best:20")

Notes: I see that after the flu my perfomance has dropped. Today I started with SR: 0.99, SPL:18, came the first three 75ms 1:08, then it became boring and continued with SR:0.90 with this SR my SPL was 20 and I came the 75ms 1:05-1:06. I concentrated on good rhythm and timing, breathing(bow wave) technique and optimum hip rotation.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:39 pm

nightcrawler wrote: thanks to the rhythm and splash sound (pat pat pat...) it makes feel like dancing.


That's the trademark of fast swimming imho. Your stroke looks clean and precise to my eyes, I find it quite similar to Paul's (Newsome) stroke.

Salvo
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:42 pm

s.sciame wrote:
nightcrawler wrote: thanks to the rhythm and splash sound (pat pat pat...) it makes feel like dancing.


That's the trademark of fast swimming imho. Your stroke looks clean and precise to my eyes, I find it quite similar to Paul's (Newsome) stroke.

Salvo



Thanks for the complement Salvo, I like Paul both as an instructor and a swimmer, he knows how to interact with the swimmers.
-------------------------------

27.10.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 3000 meters)
Set1: 20x75m crawl, Int:75" (avg:65", best:63")
Rcvr: 500m backstroke
Set2: 20x50m crawl, Int:50" (avg:43", best 41") failed at 8th, 12th and 16th, but didnt abandon the set just waited at the wall one interval period.

Notes:
- I knew that I could do better in set1 and set2 and also continue Set3 but something stopped me during the workout.
- Today i woke up tired and reluctanct. The session was positive in terms of the fact that the first set better than the yersterdays'. But in the second set I am failed then, did not want to do the Set3.
- Yesterday I had a hard day at the office (searching for a new job bythe way) and I M H O my tiredness was due to bad thoughts(anxiety) about work, although I slept 7 hours i couldnt recover well because thoughts led to weak sleep and lack of recovery.

What do you think about my situation folks?
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:02 am

28.10.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 4400 meters)
Set1: 20x75m crawl, Int:75", StrokeRate:0.90 (avg:64", best:62")
Rcvr: 200m complex
Set2: 20x50m crawl, Int:50", StrokeRate:0.88 (avg:42", best 41")
Rcvr: 200m complex
Set3: 20x25m crawl, Int:25", StrokeRate:0.87 (avg:20", best:18")

Notes: paces were better than yerterday's but still far from my goals (75ms avg:55", 50ms avg:36", 25ms avg:17"); these are even poor for the USA or Australian or the European masters open water standarts but for my level these are a nice step for being an elite master open water swimmer. If I can reach these paces, I can train with any masters squad on Earth.

Today I also did some techical trials after the sets:
*** StrokeRate:0.82:
1) 4x75m crawl, int:75", with wide arm pull (results: AvgPace75m:63", AvgSPL25m:21.5)
20 secs rest
2) 4x75m crawl, int:75", with narrow arm pull (results: AvgPace75m:62", AvgSPL25m:21)

*** StrokeRate:1.00:
3) 200m crawl with wide arm pull (results: 3:10", AvgSPL25m:19)
20 secs rest
4) 200m crawl with narrow arm pull (results: 3:09", AvgSPL25m:18)

Conclusion: Narrow arm pull is a bit faster but harder than the wide arm pull, it requires more effort and raw power. At the moment I dont know whether it worths(performance/effort) it or it is sustainable, i will try both of these techniques in the sets, time will show which one is better in both sustainability and performance. But as far as I observed in narrow arm pull biceps engaged more and the catch is deeper thus it creates more drag and needs more power to defeat the drag.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:35 pm

nightcrawler wrote:What do you think about my situation folks?


Someone said it's not about how much you train but how well you recover from training and I believe he's right. I'm recently experiencing that a good recovery makes wonders. Sleeping a bit more and better, eating well, getting the body moving at work, avoiding stressing situations etc. Sometimes I noticed that I was in better shape after an holiday (where I trained much less but rested more and regenerated mind and body) than during a period of consistent training but bad recovery. And I swim much less than you, go figure if I trained twice a day 4k in the morning and 2k in the evening targetting 30k per week :?
That's also why I asked you about nutrition: I believe nutrition should be "perfect" given you training routine. Have you also done a blood test recently?
About sleeping: by chance do you watch tablet or smartphone a lot before sleeping? I did and I'm getting rid of this bad habit, it can hurt the sleep.
About training: many experienced swimmers use to take an easier week every 3-4 weeks to prevent overtraining and let the body adapt and take the most from the previous intensive weeks. Your strategy is different in that you seem to be increasing the volume toward 30k per week and than you're going to lower volume but increase speed. Fine, as long as you don't fall in overtraining during this process. What about introducing easier weeks where you just swim less volume at the same (and not higher) intensity?

Just some personal thoughts, in the end it depends on the individual.

Cheers,
Salvo

PS: all better explained by Paul:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CoCg-XS2Zs
Other SS forum members and I are also on swim.palstani.com

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby woody » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:50 am

Great link Salvo I keep thinking about signing up to the guru but feel it would conflict with my squad sessions.
My swimming is at a much lower level I have only been swimming properly for 5 years and consistently for 3 . I swim at squad on a Sunday and 3 other days a week totalling around 11000 on average and just on the edge of breaking 2min sustainable 100m.
But even at my level I can get tired and feel I'm not progressing my solution for the last few months has been for one of my sessions to not be planned. I will just enjoy the water maybe swim slowly for an hr just loving every stroke playing with the feel of different strokes Swimsmooth and dare I say TI and ocean Walker .No beeper just do what my original goal was to enjoy being able to swim 25m turn round and do another and another ....
woody
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:07 pm

Salvo&Woody,
Thanks for your comments.

I used to do 3+1 week routine 4-5 years ago but after meeting the usrpt system became no need for that. Because of the usrpt's auto control mechanism, my training routine is usually one session hard one session soft succeedingly, sometimes in session i m recovering when i fail or loose courage during the set.

Today i did my weekly swim clinic with my master group students, they are swiming woth 1:32-1:50 pace range, we did some sculling(1-2-3) drills, water polo drill, fist drill then some interval sets inluding 25-50-75-100 meters. I was in the water for illustrating them the drills in the water, but didnt train with them.

After loosing some fat i abqndoned double sessions this week. My weekly schedule as follows:

mon: due to pool maintenance i cant swim
tue, wed, thu, fri: swimming around 3000-4000m per day.
sat: doing swim clinic, swimming arounr 500-1000m for demonstrating the drills
sun: swimming around: 3000-4000m

it is very inadequate volume when compared with my age group swimmers'. the best of them swimming around 40k per week and can maintain 1:10 pace over 400m.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:20 am

30.10.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 4550 meters)
Set1: 20x75m crawl, Int:75", StrokeRate:0.85 (avg:62.5", best:60")
Rcvr: 200m butterfly swim + 200m butterfly kick
Set2: 20x50m crawl, Int:50", StrokeRate:0.85 (avg:40", best 39")
Rcvr: 200m butterfly swim + 200m butterfly kick
Set3: 30x25m crawl, Int:25", StrokeRate:0.83 (avg:20", best:17")
Rvcr: 200-150-100-50m crawl descending, 10 secs rest among
Notes: sets are getting easier day by day
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:49 am

31.10.2016 (off due to pool cleaning)


01.11.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 4700 meters)
SET1: 1500m crawl StrokeRate 0.85 (Total: 20:44 => splits: 100m 1:23, 200m 2:45, 400m 5:30, 500m 6:52, 750m 10:23, 800m 11:04, 1000m 13:50 - AveragePace: 1:23)
Rcvr:
- 100 unco drill (one arm by the side)
- 1500 one arm drill (one arm extendend) (Total: 25:30, AveragePace: 1:42)
- 200 kicking
SET2: 20x50m crawl, Int:50", StrokeRate:0.85 (avg:40", best:40")
Rcvr: 100m kicking
SET3: 10x25m kicking, Int:35" (avg:24", best:22")
Rcvr: 50m crawl

Notes: I could only hit 20:44 in 1500m time trial, I am still very slow, bulky and clumsy, and also couldt have found out the proper arm technique (recovery, catch, pull) yet.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:27 pm

I'm impressed by how you can jump in the pool and, w/o warmup, start swimming at 0.85 and hold a steady 1:23 for 1500m! I know that you're used to skip warmup and typically start your sessions with a 20x75 but hey, a straight 1500 time trial is something different no? Any chance that with a proper warmup you could have hit 20:30 or less?
Also 25:30 with one arm is quite amazing and your last kicking set is very fast for someone who doesn't train his kick and almost doesn't kick when swimming. Did you kick a lot as a child/teen?
As an adult beginner who started swimming at very slow paces (don't know if I'll ever get to 20:44 with all the training of the world), I'm often curious of swimmers who began early, they seem unreachable. In your memories, what was your slowest 400 in your life? Have you ever been as slow as 7:00 when totally untrained or very young?

Keep up the good work!
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:29 pm

s.sciame wrote:I'm impressed by how you can jump in the pool and, w/o warmup, start swimming at 0.85 and hold a steady 1:23 for 1500m! I know that you're used to skip warmup and typically start your sessions with a 20x75 but hey, a straight 1500 time trial is something different no? Any chance that with a proper warmup you could have hit 20:30 or less?
Also 25:30 with one arm is quite amazing and your last kicking set is very fast for someone who doesn't train his kick and almost doesn't kick when swimming. Did you kick a lot as a child/teen?
As an adult beginner who started swimming at very slow paces (don't know if I'll ever get to 20:44 with all the training of the world), I'm often curious of swimmers who began early, they seem unreachable. In your memories, what was your slowest 400 in your life? Have you ever been as slow as 7:00 when totally untrained or very young?

Keep up the good work!
Salvo


I decided to swim one day complete usrpt with 75+50+25m sets and the other day 1500m trial followed by drills and a set at the end. There is big difference between my drill pace and swim pace, i think this is due to:
- lack of coupling effect(body rotation speed) - i must loose belly fat and be more agile during rotation.
In 2-3 weeks i may see some improvement i hope.

Warm up or cool down makes no difference in my avg pace, thus ignoring them, i can start and continue with race pace.

Yeah i used to be a good kicker in my youth, was doing 20x50m set @55" with 40' pace by the kickboard.

i have never swum 7:00 400m, but in 2009 when i was smooking and drinking too much beer i swam 6:04 in a masters race, shame on me, have never participate in pool races again.

P.S: 20:44 is poor for person like me who has a swim background. 1:40cm kids in next lane are swimming 1500m at 18 minutes.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:41 am

02.11.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 4300 meters)
Set1: 20x75m crawl with paddles, Int:75", StrokeRate:0.85 (avg:59", best:57")
Rcvr: 300m doggy paddle drill
Set2: 24x50m crawl with paddles, Int:50", StrokeRate:0.84 (avg:39", best 38")
Rcvr: 300m doggy paddle drill
Set3: 40x25m crawl with paddles, Int:25", StrokeRate:0.95 (avg:19", best:17")
Notes: Today I used hand paddles for fine tuning and concentrating on arms' technique. Intesting but I realized that my 0.90 stroke rate's pace is almost the same with the 0.85's. But a little difference in my technique, whilst swimming with 0.90 stroke rate I am using narrow and gentle 6 beat kick, with 0.85 stroke rate I am almost not kicking, legs are just swinging behind.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:28 pm

Hey Folks,
I have a surprise for you, here is the comparison of breathing techniques of mine and Chloe Sutton's. I hope you will like this!!! :D

This is Chloe's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN7jvcoKQZ8

This is my video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzk37g_nightcrawler-freestyle-technique2_sport

NOW the COMPARISON of BREATHING TECHNIQUES and TIMINGS deduced FROM the TWO FOOTAGES:
http://www.maratonyuzme.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/chloe-vs-emrah.jpg
Last edited by nightcrawler on Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:06 am

03.11.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 4200 meters)
Set1: 1500m crawl StrokeRate 0.85 (Total: 20:33 => splits: 100m 1:22, 200m 2:43, 400m 5:26, 500m 6:47, 800m 10:55, 1000m 13:37 - last 100m 1:18 , AveragePace: 1:21)
Rcvr: 1500m one arm drill
Set2: 24x50m crawl, Int:50", StrokeRate:0.85 (avg:41", best:40")

Notes: Today in 1500m time trial I could set the average pace to 1:21, it realized exactly like what I expected before the session. In Set2 I felt exhausted, arms got swollen, felt powerless...
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:17 am

04.11.2016 (SCM Pool - Morning Session - Total: 3200 meters)
Set1: 20x75m crawl Int:75" (avg:65", best:63")
Rcvr: 200m unco drill
Set2: 30x50m crawl, Int:50", (avg:42", best:41")

Notes: Today I was really tired, there was ache on my shoulder, leg, arm, lats, chest muscles. Also feeling a little bit flu and runny nose. swam shorter and with an easier pace. By the way, I am not happy with my technique, couldnt have set the proper technique yet.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

cottmiler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby cottmiler » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:14 am

Have you tried fist drill with ankle band yet?
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:53 am

Hi Cottmiler,

This week I increased the distance per session a bit in order to see my weakness, where I get worn out; as a result I realized that I have poor technique...

The following week I am intending to start drills with ankle bands (fist, unco, pacing, catchup), I am gonnatry different arm-breath timings, different recoveries such as swinger and smooth, concentrate on high elbow catch. The most important, I will try these with different stroke rates from 1.00 to 0.80. I hope this will tune up both my recovery, timing and catch+pullthrough.

I will write down and share my findings, observations and maybe some photages next week...

Nowadays, I have bad mood due to work, this is also reflecting to swimming. I am searching for a new job in small cities like Antalya. Hate living in Istanbul, so crowded and pupil are so rude and insensitive, they have no hobbies, just working, eating, sleeping and fighting. But due to economical crisis in my country it is really hard to change my situation.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:00 pm

04.11.2016 (SCM Pool - Afternoon Session - Total: 3000 meters)
Set1: 8x50m crawl, Int:60", SR:1.00~0.98 (avg:43", best:42", SPL25m: 17-18 arms)
Set2: 8x50m crawl, Int:55", SR:0.98~0.95 (avg:42.5", best:41", SPL25m: 18 arms)
Rcvr: 300m complex
Set3: 16x50m crawl fist drill with bands, Int:60", SR:1.00~0.95 (avg:45", best:44", SPL25m: 19-20 arms)
Rcvr: 300m complex
Set4: 8x75m crawl, Int:80", SR:1:00~0.95 (avg:64", best:62", SPL25m: 17-18 arms)

Notes: After talking with Cottmiler I headed out from the office and drived to the pool at lunch(Friday pray) time. Did(prayed) some sets with different stroke rates ranging between 1:00-0.95. Especially, while doing the fist drill I realized that my pace is not so sensitive to stroke rate(SR) but my SPL is sensitive to SR to a greater extend. Below the 0.90 stroke rates my SPL25m increses up to 20-21 arms. This means that lower stroke rates such as 0.85(always I do) I am exposed to more drag. In other words since the stroke frequency(cadance) increases, frontal drag increased. So that, I must find a solution for stabilizing the frontal drag while increasing the cadance. Today I worked out on this!

I found a solution, actually I had used to do it before, but havent been doing since June 2016:
ARMS CATCH-UP BEFORE THE BREATH AND AFTER THE BREATH!
Thanks to this late breath I can remain in the streamline position more and minimize frontal drag - also the SPL decreases - but it is hard to maintain the catch-ups in higher cadances! So I dont know whether it will work in choppy open water.

IN THIS TECHNIQUE, YOU SHOULD BREATH IN EVERY 3 ARMS. KICK SHOULD BE 3 RIGHT 3 LEFT BUT GENTLE AND WITHOUT ANY SPLASH - 5-6 CM BELOW THE SURFACE, JUST FOR BALANCE (But also without kicking I can maintain the same pace with lower heart rate - so I prefer "no kick").

These are my observations,
Best wishes, Thanks again Cott, fantastic assist! I am gonna continue doing this kind of workouts for technical improvement.

For changing my bad mood I must relocate to another country such as Australia... I should contact Paul for employing me and providing visa sponsorhip for working in Perth as a software engineer and an assistant coach.

Hey Cott, by the way if you want to visit Turkey, take the tickests from Turkish Airlines, you wont be regretful :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quer1SIaCU0
Read the comments below the video!!!
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion


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