Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Welcome! Ask your questions and chat about swimming, technique, swimming training or Mr Smooth.
User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:49 am

Dear Woody (Allen) :D ,
TI may be good for beginners for learning the base aspects of swimming, Sportsmen(people who graduated from sports academy) immediately and definitely can say that TI is not a competitive swimming, it can be an economical swim methodology for rehabilitative and recreational purposes but absolutely not a competitive swimming system. Actually in my 33+ years in this sport I have never seen an olympic swimmer using TI.

On the other hand, I cant rely on the advices of the ones(TI people) who are not fairly swimming better and faster than me. I have neither come across with a faster swimmer nor seen any swimmer in the competitive swimming world who is using TI.

Best wishes for you.
Last edited by nightcrawler on Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:11 am

16.11.2016 - Morning Session - SCM Pool - 4100m
Set#1: 20x25m freestyle int:00:30 --->>> (SR=1.00, SPL=16~17, AVR=00:20~00:19)
Rcvry: 350m catchup + closed fist drills
Set#2: 16x50m freestyle int:00:58 --->>> (SR=1.00, SPL=16~17, AVR=00:43~00:41)
Rcvry: 350m catchup + doggy paddle drills
Set#3: 12x75m freestyle int:01:27 --->>> (SR=1.00, SPL=16~17, AVR=01:05~01:03)
Rcvry: 400m catchup + 6-3-6 drills
Set#4: 8x100m freestyle int:01:52 --->>> (SR=1.00, SPL=16~17, AVR=01:27~01:25)

Notes: Today I felt a bit tired before the workout, bacause couldnt sleep well last night due to allergic asthma, coughed at least half hour continuously in bed, woke up and walked around. As soon as I dived into the water felt better and catchup timing sytle automatically started unconsciously, such being the case I decreased both the intervals and the stroke rates after the first set. With these decreases SPL was not affected so much, but my paces especially in 50ms, 75ms, 100ms were better than yesterday's. At the moment I guess that, with "1.00 stroke rate + catchup swim style" I can maintain 22 secs pace per lap (1:28/100m pace) in 400m free, I am gonna test this soon.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

woody
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:24 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby woody » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:04 am

Thanks NC
Perhaps next year at auto masters you may take the chance to study Adam Walker who is not anything like TI although others seem to think he is.
I say this because I often find in other areas of my life where I am top of my game I occasionally meet someone who can show me or tell me something that can improve me. Even though they may not be as skilled as myself as a whole but they have just one small way that can help me.
Woody
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:10 am

I wanted to remind all you the SharkFM's post:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKKry7F ... e=youtu.be
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:14 am

woody wrote:Thanks NC
Perhaps next year at auto masters you may take the chance to study Adam Walker who is not anything like TI although others seem to think he is.
Woody

His both eyes are checking the weather conditions while breathing, one goggle should always be in the water. He even doesnt know how to breath properly like other TI oriented swimmers, check 0:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz1q6Ste9as
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

woody
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:24 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby woody » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:02 am

Hi NC
I still think you would find a little something from him if you met up with him before next years aquamasters. You've already met him this year so why not take it a bit further next year and get in the pool together.
It's the easiest thing in the world for us humans to do to find the negative in anything but it does make us miss the positive. Paul Simon says it best "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
The only videos publicly available are promotional so may not be representative of every breath he takes .But someone that can swim the distances he has must have something he can show you to get you even more efficient than you obviously are already.
Woody
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:24 pm

Hi Woody,

We have different needs and goals with you. I have been swimming since 1982(5 years old) and have trained with many national team swimmers in the swim clubs that I have been, most of my friends broke Turkish records and immigrated to America with only the scholarship of the government even they had bad grades, but since I was not gifted like them, I preferred to stay in my country, didnt train as much as them, did higher grades and qualify for the university in Turkey. Those guys with whom I was doing the same interval trainings are/were better swimmers than Terry, Shinji and Adam. Actually they were swimmers not showmen - by the way they abandoned swimming at the last year of the university, each of them gain 100+ kilos and made 3+ children, I am the only one of the squad who has been maintaining swimming actively.

Adam has a positive and motivating character but not my guy and not actually a swimmer, moreover I hate TI based training. In Aqua Masters champ 1.5 months ago Adam gave some private lessons to master swimmers in my age group who are ex national team swimmers and can swim the 100m free around 60 seconds at the moment, I watched their lessons, he watched them carefully(showing them as if he was attentive to their technique, then gave them side kick and NAD drills to teach them the body rotatation, whereas those guys have already knew and mastered those basics for 20+ years and also all are faster than Adam. As a result, he took their 100 dollars, make some chat, took some photos with them. I dont want to waste time with side kick and NAD drills that I had done thousands times which have added no contribution to my swim speed and also dont want to pay 100 dollars to Adam for no use.

If Ian Thorpe, Leisel Jones, Shane Gould, Libby Trickett, Shelly Taylor or Mel Benson or Jono Van Hazel were here, I could run after them with 5000 dollars begging for a lesson.

I dont only want to swim relaxed and comfortable or to seem elegant or graceful, I want to swim faster. The TI guys that I know (Shinji, Matt Hudson, Terry and Adam) make no sense for me if they had never swum the 1500m free sub 17 minutes, and I know they couldnt have. I have swim background more than all of them. It is their job, but it is my second job, I am both swimming and coaching and also sitting at the office in a full time job by dealing with the stupid software codes till the night, can they do this? No, then I am successful than them, I can teach them the secrets of swimming over 25K weekly volume while working and coaching.

Note that, if I want to take some lessons, I prefer a master (over 25 years age) olympian like Serkan Atasay or Derya Buyukuncu in my country, these guys are IM and backstroke sprinters, but they also can swim the 1500m as a recovery set at the end of their workout with sub 17 minutes pace.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby smootharnie » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:53 pm

So you only value the opinion of swimmers faster than you?
If Phelps and all the other olympic swimmers used the same reasoning, where would they go for a second opinion or coaching?
I can totally understand your opinion, and if you can find a coach who can swim as you want to swim . AND can explain what he is doing AND can find the missing link in your stroke to improve your stroke (not even talking about the possible fittness flexibility bodytype strength etc difference between your ideal coach/swimmer and yourself), well go to that coach asap.
We all want that coach instead of someone who swims slower and/or in a different style as we aspire, but where to find that ideal coach?
In the meantime most of us settle for the opinion of all the relative crap (non elite) swimmers on this forum :D
GO to the new swimforum, called ....... THE SWIM FORUM......swim.palstani.com

s.sciame
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:57 pm

nightcrawler wrote:Adam has a positive and motivating character but not my guy and not actually a swimmer, moreover I hate TI based training. In Aqua Masters champ 1.5 months ago Adam gave some private lessons to master swimmers in my age group who are ex national team swimmers and can swim the 100m free around 60 seconds at the moment, I watched their lessons, he watched them carefully(showing them as if he was attentive to their technique, then gave them side kick and NAD drills to teach them the body rotatation, whereas those guys have already knew and mastered those basics for 20+ years and also all are faster than Adam.


sorry but now I'm curious: I had understood from the first page of this thread that Adam's pace is "around 1:05/100m in a marathon". It sounded too fast (at this pace he would win the 10k at the Olympics), anyway the message was that he is definitely fast in open water and marathon swimming. What time did he do in the 4x500 relay at Marmaris Aquamasters Races?

Salvo
Other SS forum members and I are also on swim.palstani.com

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:38 pm

Hey smootharnie, my answers below with bold.

smootharnie wrote:So you only value the opinion of swimmers faster than you?
Yes, definitely.

If Phelps and all the other olympic swimmers used the same reasoning, where would they go for a second opinion or coaching?
Phelps was already swimming faster than me while he was 1 years old, he is a natural talent, his coach didnt gave him speed just made fine tunings on him to swim 1-2 seconds faster, event an imbecile "having his physical talent" could swam like him by taking over 60k weekly workout.

I can totally understand your opinion, and if you can find a coach who can swim as you want to swim . AND can explain what he is doing AND can find the missing link in your stroke to improve your stroke (not even talking about the possible fittness flexibility bodytype strength etc difference between your ideal coach/swimmer and yourself), well go to that coach asap.
If anyone who could give such a concrete advice(Hey do this then you will gain 2 seconds), I could probably listen, but they have just given some examples didnt showed a concrete way.

We all want that coach instead of someone who swims slower and/or in a different style as we aspire, but where to find that ideal coach?
You are misunderstanding something, I dont want a coach, but you all still offer me to find a coach, I am already a coach, I know my capabilities and limits :)

In the meantime most of us settle for the opinion of all the relative crap (non elite) swimmers on this forum :D
I am sharing my training programs in this forum to stimulate myself and learn some new things that may help to enlight my vision. For example coachstu gave me an idea of USRPT 3 years ago, since then I have been implementing it. If you advice something useful(1. it must be the thing that I have never tried, 2. I must belive that it maybe useful for my pace development), I will surely, lovely, asap do it.
Last edited by nightcrawler on Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:40 pm

s.sciame wrote:
nightcrawler wrote:Adam has a positive and motivating character but not my guy and not actually a swimmer, moreover I hate TI based training. In Aqua Masters champ 1.5 months ago Adam gave some private lessons to master swimmers in my age group who are ex national team swimmers and can swim the 100m free around 60 seconds at the moment, I watched their lessons, he watched them carefully(showing them as if he was attentive to their technique, then gave them side kick and NAD drills to teach them the body rotatation, whereas those guys have already knew and mastered those basics for 20+ years and also all are faster than Adam.


sorry but now I'm curious: I had understood from the first page of this thread that Adam's pace is "around 1:05/100m in a marathon". It sounded too fast (at this pace he would win the 10k at the Olympics), anyway the message was that he is definitely fast in open water and marathon swimming. What time did he do in the 4x500 relay at Marmaris Aquamasters Races?

Salvo


Hi Salvatore(Schillaci) :D
As many TI guys' show, Adam claimed that his pace was around 1:05, but he swam the 500m free with 3:40 which is 5 seconds faster than me (at that time I was not in my good form and smooking 2 packs of cigarettes with at least 5 bottles of beer a day).
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:48 pm
Location: Rome, Italy

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:54 pm

nightcrawler wrote:Hi Salvatore(Schillaci) :D


You still remember him, I can't believe it! :D
Remember Italia '90? Magic nights, he was the outsider, the Cinderella man who made us dream that summer, then he faded... like a dream ;)
Other SS forum members and I are also on swim.palstani.com

woody
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:24 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby woody » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:03 pm

Wow
You wouldn't have employed Alex Ferguson at Man Utd either.

Sorry to have provoked such a reaction I genuinely believe having looked at your videos and seen Adam Swim from both above and underwater you could find a portion of his stroke that would give you those 2 seconds.

Also I would not group Adams stroke with TI the timing is so different. He doesn't do online training so no videos to compare unfortunately. But having had many many hours of TI and 2 days with Adam they are so different.

Cheers
Woody
ps But I love Swimsmooth also it got me from struggling with distance to loving it.
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

Shenaram
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 2:00 pm

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Shenaram » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:55 pm

nightcrawler wrote:Hey smootharnie, my answers below with bold.

smootharnie wrote:So you only value the opinion of swimmers faster than you?
Yes, definitely.

If Phelps and all the other olympic swimmers used the same reasoning, where would they go for a second opinion or coaching?
Phelps was already swimming faster than me while he was 1 years old, he is a natural talent, his coach didnt gave him speed just made fine tunings on him to swim 1-2 seconds faster, event an imbecile "having his physical talent" could swam like him by taking over 60k weekly workout.

I can totally understand your opinion, and if you can find a coach who can swim as you want to swim . AND can explain what he is doing AND can find the missing link in your stroke to improve your stroke (not even talking about the possible fittness flexibility bodytype strength etc difference between your ideal coach/swimmer and yourself), well go to that coach asap.
If anyone who could give such a concrete advice(Hey do this then you will gain 2 seconds), I could probably listen, but they have just given some examples didnt showed a concrete way.

We all want that coach instead of someone who swims slower and/or in a different style as we aspire, but where to find that ideal coach?
You are misunderstanding something, I dont want a coach, but you all still offer me to find a coach, I am already a coach, I know my capabilities and limits :)

In the meantime most of us settle for the opinion of all the relative crap (non elite) swimmers on this forum :D
I am sharing my training programs in this forum to stimulate myself and learn some new things that may help to enlight my vision. For example coachstu gave me an idea of USRPT 3 years ago, since then I have been implementing it. If you advice something useful(1. it must be the thing that I have never tried, 2. I must belive that it maybe useful for my pace development), I will surely, lovely, asap do it.



I see that second degree humor is a must here.

Sprinter
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:54 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Sprinter » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:30 am

nightcrawler wrote:As many TI guys' show, Adam claimed that his pace was around 1:05, but he swam the 500m free with 3:40 which is 5 seconds faster than me (at that time I was not in my good form and smooking 2 packs of cigarettes with at least 5 bottles of beer a day).


Something's wrong here: 500m in 3:40 seems pretty good to me :D (and, so well, 500m in 3:45 is still okay).

(Over 400m, 3:40.07 is the current WR.)

Sprinter
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:54 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Sprinter » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:50 am

The question whether a coach needed to be a fast (faster) swimmer is interesting.

In general, teaching/coaching abilities and swimming abilities are likely not correlated, or might even have a negative correlation: you need to do a lot of practice to be good in something, and so time spent on swimming is time NOT spent on teaching/coaching. Furthermore as a teacher/coach you need certain personality traits which are rather different from going deep into one direction.

That holds for all disciplines.

On the other hand, the closer you come to the edge, the more scarce is knowledge (even secretive). For a general math course at the university, you do not want to have a very good mathematician (in general), but the closer you come to special areas, the more likely it is that only good mathematicians understand that area.

I had recently a swimming clinic with Richard Stannard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stannard_(triathlete)
and I think it shows that he is a very good swimmer himself.

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:58 am

Sorry, I wrote it wrong, in the competition our times were 6:40 and 6:45.
Last edited by nightcrawler on Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

User avatar
nightcrawler
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:03 pm
Location: Istanbul / Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:59 am

17.11.2016 - 1700m
20x25m, 5 bubbles rest among the reps
400 catchup drill + broken arrow drill
16x50m, 5 bubbles rest among the reps
Note: Today I didnt want to swim, hardly got tot the pool, listened to the voide of my body and did easy sets without looking at the chronometer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sprinter wrote:The question whether a coach needed to be a fast (faster) swimmer is interesting.

In general, teaching/coaching abilities and swimming abilities are likely not correlated, or might even have a negative correlation: you need to do a lot of practice to be good in something, and so time spent on swimming is time NOT spent on teaching/coaching. Furthermore as a teacher/coach you need certain personality traits which are rather different from going deep into one direction.

That holds for all disciplines.

On the other hand, the closer you come to the edge, the more scarce is knowledge (even secretive). For a general math course at the university, you do not want to have a very good mathematician (in general), but the closer you come to special areas, the more likely it is that only good mathematicians understand that area.

I had recently a swimming clinic with Richard Stannard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stannard_(triathlete)
and I think it shows that he is a very good swimmer himself.


Keep it simple stupid(KISS)! :D
A trainer should have a swimming background and if he/she has olympic experience than it will be wonderful, sorry but I cant take lessons from a coach who cannot even swim 100m IM with a good technique. I am a good coach in my country, making master swimmers' dreams come true, have been coaching since 1995, have taught 1000+ children swimming and given also 2000+ masters swim clinic. Do you prefer to take lessons from me or Michael Phelps who is not an experienced coach like me ? :D

My swimmer friend whose paces are close to mine and who is also the 400 and 1500m Turkish masters record holder in 40-45 age group(4:52, 20:12) recommended me to take lesson from Serkan Atasay(178cm, 72kg, can you imagine??? :o :shock: ) Serkan is an olympic Ukranian oriented Turkish national swimmer and masters world record holder, still swimming the 100m IM 00:53 and 200 IM 02:11. Serkan's team mates, while he swam for the Ukranian national team, were famous swimmers like
Yana Klochkova(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jo2Y2huJBs),
Oleg Lisogor(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZzzvIrzC9M).

Swimming in the same level with those "Olympic Legends" can definitely teach even a donkey how to swim well. So that a real complete coach preferably must have such an Olympic background in order to understand your swallowing the water, struggling with balance in the water, kicking/pulling but cant propelling, and morever can have the library to determine and correct(on land and in the water) your both technical and physical deficiencies which dont allow you to swim faster. Sometimes if necessary he must be able to jump and show you the correct mechanics in the water by himself (THIS IS THE MIN LEVEL OF THE COACH THAT I CAN BENEFIT). Coz these guys are 3-4 levels higher than my level, according to me, basic level hierarchy as follows:
1.beginner
2.intermediate
3.upper intermediate
4.advanced
5.national team swimmer (world class)
6.olympic swimmer
7.olympic medalist

these guys are at the 6ht and 7th levels. I see myself at the 3rd level and know that cant go further than the 4th level. I want to get to the 4th level.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... n_swimming
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serkan_Atasay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hWAi1yYyjU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeLwOi06z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buNySTm5iB4

Actually my friend has been working with him for a year, he has been improving, he says that Serkan not only shows his mistakes but also treats them both with physicotherapies and mobility exercises on land and also with the proper drills in the water(saying that do this drill in the water, or make this mobility exercises 100 times on land then you will start to pull with an higher elbow, etc)...

I am gonna join their lesson on the following Sunday, if I like his way, I am gonna continue...
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

smootharnie
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:56 am

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby smootharnie » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:57 am

Let us know what they advise. Curious to hear where they see improvment possible.

Good Luck and have fun!
GO to the new swimforum, called ....... THE SWIM FORUM......swim.palstani.com

User avatar
Mike A
Posts: 1025
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:28 am
Location: Sussex, UK

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Mike A » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:35 pm

nightcrawler wrote:Sorry, I wrote it wrong, in the competition our times were 6:40 and 6:45.

Oh good, that makes me feel slightly less inadequate - as I work towards getting my 500m time below 9:00. :lol:
Why not join your SwimSmooth Forum friends at swim.palstani.com


Return to “Talk Swimming!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest