Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:14 am

woody wrote:Looks like you had a great lesson NC and must be looking forward to next week.
woody

Thanks woody, think i did a good job by starting the lesson, taking lessons from a professional olympic swimmer is a great chance, hope I will see the difference in the months to come. Serkan is always focusing on stroke mechanics and efficiency. He is trying to build our flexibility skills on land then make us use them in the water. He has been in Turkey for 10 years, head coach of Fenerbahce swimming club. He is talking our language (Turkish) well enough to communicate, but also sometimes I am asking him to express in Russian to understand him better. He says that we cant swim well (more than we are doing now) without doing 100 squads, 100 chinups, 100 pushups, 10 minutes non stop jump rope. Recommends us to build dry land skills(which I hate) and get a good shape before the swim sessions.

After yesterday's 1.5 hours non stop dry land session I couldnt sleep at night because of the pain in my all muscles, especially the legs.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

cottmiler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby cottmiler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:07 am

That's really inspiring to us all!

I think your lesson was worth $5000.

I have swum in Paul Newsome's squads and had stroke correction with Shelley Taylor-Smith plus many Open Water Tuesday sessions with ST-S, but I think your lesson beats all that.

In a couple of day's time I shall be back in Perth, hoping to see PN and ST-S.
cottmiler is also on swim.palstani.com

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:17 am

cottmiler wrote:That's really inspiring to us all!

I think your lesson was worth $5000.

I have swum in Paul Newsome's squads and had stroke correction with Shelley Taylor-Smith plus many Open Water Tuesday sessions with ST-S, but I think your lesson beats all that.

In a couple of day's time I shall be back in Perth, hoping to see PN and ST-S.


Dont make comparisons Cottmiler :))
ST-S and PN my idols, and inspirations. My dream is meeting them before I die, they have great experiences, have been working with many world class athletes and olympic swimmers, so much to learn from them! Serkan is a great swimmer, still can swim 49seconds 100m freestyle without any struggle at the age of 46, he has a great experience and knows what to focus on, also make diagnosis as soon as he sees your stroke. He is supporting dry land exercises which I really hate, but if it worths, I should get used to do them. Time will show my progession, in my opinion I need at least 6 months to progress and also have to loose 5 kilos a.s.a.p, they can jump 1.5 meters, can touch the ceiling but i can jump only 30cm like a fat cat :D

At the end of the lesson he said to me that:

- I have to correct your vital mistakes(hand entry end extension, stoke timing and acceleration, low elbow recovery, lack of rotation). For my lack of high elbow recovery the below videos may be helpful i think:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_kmHtjpVDQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l8EDj0JLCk
It is easy seems on the video but very hard to do in the water.

- But in any case seems that I love the water, have a good feel for the water, nice glide, but I could make these aspects better, carry them couple of steps further by correcting the above mistakes.

One thing may be shocking for all of us that for middle and long distance swimmers Serkan is offering a little bit drawing S shape during catch phase.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:17 pm

nightcrawler wrote:At the outset i was swimming with 15 arms per 25m, after i tried to do his recommendations my SPL became 10 per 25m. He said that it was still high, it should be 6-7 per 25m. Then he jumped into the pool showed us how to swim the 100m 59 seconds with 12 strokes(6 arms for each 25m) by using proper stroke timing.


What what what? :shock:
I mean, 15SPL is already less than your typical stroke count (you usually swim at 18-20 unless doing deliberate catchup, right?), then you got to as low as 10 and he said that it should be 6-7? Don't you have to overglide forever to achieve this super low stroke count (did you talk about this risk)? Or kick like crazy during the slow recovery and while counting 1-2-3-4? When he swam 100m in 59s with 6SPL (24 strokes, right?), did he do super long pushoffs like 10m or more? And did he kick very powerfully like Phelps?

Also cool to hear the benefits of adding 2 dolphin kicks at turns and the importance of dryland training (especially the legs) even for distance swimmers who are supposed to "save the legs" most of the time.

You're definitely into something that could revolutionize your swimming, NC. Really really inspiring, keep us posted!

Salvo
Other SS forum members and I are also on swim.palstani.com

Campagnolo
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Campagnolo » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:41 pm

s.sciame wrote:
nightcrawler wrote:
Set #1: 20x75m on :80 target pace 22.25s/length (measured with TT) or :66.75. Succeeded at 19-21SPL (estimated stroke rate btw 64 and 70SPM)
Recovery: 200m bk

Set #2: 20x50m on :55 target pace 22.25s/length or :44.5. Succeeded at 19-21SPL. This set felt easier than the previous one.
Recovery: 100m bk


I used to do them too, inspired by this thread.
I did them 1 sec faster/lane but started at 85 and 60. And that was challenging! I really needed the extra rest. Especially the 75m.

I will come back to this in the spring.

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:06 pm

s.sciame wrote:
nightcrawler wrote:At the outset i was swimming with 15 arms per 25m, after i tried to do his recommendations my SPL became 10 per 25m. He said that it was still high, it should be 6-7 per 25m. Then he jumped into the pool showed us how to swim the 100m 59 seconds with 12 strokes(6 arms for each 25m) by using proper stroke timing.


What what what? :shock:
I mean, 15SPL is already less than your typical stroke count (you usually swim at 18-20 unless doing deliberate catchup, right?), then you got to as low as 10 and he said that it should be 6-7? Don't you have to overglide forever to achieve this super low stroke count (did you talk about this risk)? Or kick like crazy during the slow recovery and while counting 1-2-3-4? When he swam 100m in 59s with 6SPL (24 strokes, right?), did he do super long pushoffs like 10m or more? And did he kick very powerfully like Phelps?

Also cool to hear the benefits of adding 2 dolphin kicks at turns and the importance of dryland training (especially the legs) even for distance swimmers who are supposed to "save the legs" most of the time.

You're definitely into something that could revolutionize your swimming, NC. Really really inspiring, keep us posted!

Salvo


Serkan Atasay is used 2 dolphin kicks, 5-6 m underwater while showing us the technique.
Of course he overglided, but overgliding is not bad while training and developing distance per stroke.
Acrtually, this is not his race stroke, look at his race stroke when he became the european 7th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei4vTrWOjf4
By the way, he is an IM swimmer, his worst stroke is freestyle. Moreover he is 176cm tall, minimum 15cm shorter than his opponents.

He says that do them with 6bk and 6-7 strokes per lap. Then try doing them at 100m lenght, this time you cannot hold 6-7 strokes per lap, but still it will be 8-9 which is still better than now. Then try to swim 200m with 8 strokes per lap, it will be 9-10 strokes per lap. If you achieve this, it will be easier for you to hold more frequent (15-16) strokes per lap while swimming 400m with race pace.

He wants us to develop as much as possible strong catch-pull-push mechanics in the beginning of the season, then we will slightly increase the strokes per minute. If we can achive 1:20 time with 30 strokes per minute, then by 60 stokes per minute we have the chance to swim 1:05 in the races.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

smootharnie
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby smootharnie » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:23 pm

Curious to see where this will end. :?
I think you are more rhythm swimmer as strength swimmer, but cleaning up your basic arm mechanics cant be bad.


I guess you have seen this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXxSvKKxx3Q
GO to the new swimforum, called ....... THE SWIM FORUM......swim.palstani.com

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:29 pm

smootharnie wrote:Curious to see where this will end. :?
I think you are more rhythm swimmer as strength swimmer, but cleaning up your basic arm mechanics cant be bad.


I guess you have seen this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXxSvKKxx3Q

This is exactly what we are doing now! :D
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:14 pm

I'm curious too. Another curiosity: why do you think he stresses high elbow recovery over a straighter arm recovery?

Salvo
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:33 pm

I may not continue the lesson, my legs and joints have too much pain now, cant walk and climb stairs. He mustnt have focused on too much dry land exercise from the first day. I m not doing any dry land exercises i had told him before the lesson. On the other hand have no time to repeat those land exercise in the week, so if i continue doing one day hard dry land exercise, i am gonna surely have the same pain next week.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

smootharnie
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby smootharnie » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:38 pm

What I mean by shoulder rotation on top of hip rotation is shown at 32 min 30 sec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGyHmLHIeuA
The body is NOT moving as one unit, hips and shoulders do not rotate the same amount at the same time.
Imagine throwing someting this way. Loosing half of your potential.
Yet its often presented that way (Bob Bowman, TI, etc) as the ideal way to swim-
Phelps, mr smooth. Popov, Thorpe, harry Wiltshire, Paltrinieri etc etc etc rotate the shoulders on top of the hip rotation.
Its a pretty findamental difference in the whole stroke perception.
Imagine having bags of sand laying on legs and hips and only being able to move the upperbody and shoulders to crawl forward on dryland.
A nice extra mechanism to use in your stroke.
Nothing new probably, but maybe nice to experiment with in your total stroke rebuild program ;)
Finding Freestyles has some online coaching to find your personal best mix of basic movements.
Big fan of their fresh approach to swimming, so promoting these guys again

NC, do you think your current stroke follows mostly this movement pattern?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLMLDEzFiKo
(this is different from pure shoulder rotation on top of hip rotation, but also an upperbody relative to hips/legs action)
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Tom65 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:40 pm

nightcrawler wrote:I may not continue the lesson, my legs and joints have too much pain now, cant walk and climb stairs. He mustnt have focused on too much dry land exercise from the first day. I m not doing any dry land exercises i had told him before the lesson. On the other hand have no time to repeat those land exercise in the week, so if i continue doing one day hard dry land exercise, i am gonna surely have the same pain next week.


Four days should cover the aches and pains.
Less pain the following week.

100 chinups......there's no recovering from that.
Forum locked, might go to TI's forum, looked at SS's facebook page, too many photos...ewww...for me.
New Forum http://swim.palstani.com/

Shenaram
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby Shenaram » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:10 pm

Tom65 wrote:100 chinups......there's no recovering from that.


depends... if the feet are on ground and pushing up while doing the chinup. :lol:
Squads and chinups simultaneously.

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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:33 am

smootharnie wrote:What I mean by shoulder rotation on top of hip rotation is shown at 32 min 30 sec.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGyHmLHIeuA
The body is NOT moving as one unit, hips and shoulders do not rotate the same amount at the same time.
Imagine throwing someting this way. Loosing half of your potential.
Yet its often presented that way (Bob Bowman, TI, etc) as the ideal way to swim-
Phelps, mr smooth. Popov, Thorpe, harry Wiltshire, Paltrinieri etc etc etc rotate the shoulders on top of the hip rotation.
Its a pretty findamental difference in the whole stroke perception.
Imagine having bags of sand laying on legs and hips and only being able to move the upperbody and shoulders to crawl forward on dryland.
A nice extra mechanism to use in your stroke.
Nothing new probably, but maybe nice to experiment with in your total stroke rebuild program ;)
Finding Freestyles has some online coaching to find your personal best mix of basic movements.
Big fan of their fresh approach to swimming, so promoting these guys again

NC, do you think your current stroke follows mostly this movement pattern?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLMLDEzFiKo
(this is different from pure shoulder rotation on top of hip rotation, but also an upperbody relative to hips/legs action)


Hi smootharnie,

First of all thanks for your interest on my progression, the above videos and their polar opposite approcaches are very nice materials in terms of comparison.

Let me inform you about my swimming bacground and lets decide together that which approach is more suitable for me. Because I also dont know it! :(

- I was born to love swimming in İzmir on the 22th of May 1977 (My zodiac sign: Gemini)
- Learned swimming beside the beach near our summer house in Çeşme when I was at 3 years old. Çeşme is the best summer village of the city İzmir, located nearby the Aegean Sea, İzmir has Greek culture and it is the most modern city of Turkey, İzmir known as the Pearl of Turkey - http://veryturkey.com/galleries/cesme/cesme-photos,1
- Joined Göztepe Swimming Club in İzmir when I was 5 years old, my mum made me start swimming thinking that it would be a treatment for my hyperactivity.
- Swam from 1982 till 1988 in Göztepe Swimming Club.
- Then due to my school hours I had to abandon swimming.
- I played football for 4 years like an idiot (from 11 years of age till 15 years of age).
- One day while I was walking on the street I saw my friends from the swimming club. They persuaded me to come to the pool again.
- I went to the pool, my trainer saw my belly fat shape with thick legs and said that, it was too late for swimming, because all my friends were in the national team. At that time, I understood that I wasted my most efficient years by playing football and damaging my legs.
- I swam everyday, didnt miss any session, tried my best to swim behind my friends and to chase them, but something was always pulling me back, I could never swam like them especially in short distances they were really faster than me, but in longer distances such as 2-3k aerobic swims that we were doing once a week I was touching their feet.
- During my Bachelor of Science education(1995-2000) I had lots of spare time after the courses, my trainer offered me to preapare for the triathlons. I every morning I woke up at 5:00 AM ran 10k, cycle 20k, in the afternoon swam over 4k, and also worked with dumbles and after all sessions I did stretching. At the outset these were really killing me... Also in 1995 I took my coaching certificate, and my trainer offered me a job in the club. Life was perfect for me in those years.
- Then I participated my first triathlon race which is Turkish National Championship in 1997. I became the 3rd in my age group and 7th in general ranking with 2 hours 6 minutes. And also in that year I participated my first marathon race in Dardanelles(Hellespont): https://www.swimtrek.com/packages/helle ... elles-swim I became the 3rd in my age group and 6th in general ranking. These were really fantastic moments for me.
- In 1998 I bought a better bicycle, trained harder, participated the 1998 Turkish Triathlon Championship, the elites were seing me for the first time and didnt know me, but I was really in good shape and looking sharp, became the first in general ranking with 1 hour 58 minutes, elites were shocked, it was the best time until that time, new Turkish record. Turkish Triathlon Federation accepted me to national team. I injured my right knee joint while we were preparing for the Eurpean Championship in Bulgaria. I decided to quit because I also hadnt loved triathlon which is leg based like football. My trainer insisted on continuing, I opposed, then we went our seperate ways. Since then I have been training alone. Abandoned triathlon and decided to compete in marathon swimming races. Still I am calling my trainer in important days and meeting him and and having lunch with him when we come across in the races , beating his swimmers :D .
- I many times(over 15) crossed Dardanelles and Bosphorus Channels, participated in most of the races across Turkey, got lots of medals in general ranking. But all are meaningless for me unless I swim 59 seconds/100m.

During my club years we were swimming with the S shaped technique that you sent below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGyHmLHIeuA
With this technique I was focusing on the least SPL, it had become easy for me per lap to hold 14 arms in SCM and 32 arms in LCM. I was seeming more elegant than now I do, there was less splash, better kick and stronger pull.

Then in 2009 I participated a public 3K race, in the first 1000m a guy was swimming 3-4 meters in front of me without kicking, I was kicking so hard but could catch him. Then looked his stroked carefully, he was swimming with a higher turnover than me, I tried to increase my cadance but I couldt, it wasnt so easy if you didnt work on it... Then in the following meters I became tired, and he accelerated more and more because since he wasnt kicking he has less fatique. I arrived at a conclusion that kicking is not for long distance swimmers. "In order to kick ass, you shouldnt kick!". Also instead of S shaped pull, straight pull would be better in terms of catching up higher cadance, since then quit S shaped pull.

I watched lots of videos, went to watch various swim club trainings, observed the swimmers who were/werent kicking, their times/efficiencies. Crawlers are always kicking the ass of Gliders in longer distances in the workouts. It was obvious! I decided that I had to kick less. I learned how to do 2bk properly, I mastered it by swimming thousands of kilometers. Then I learned to mix 2bk by 6bk, because I also had to be able to kick when necessary, mastered the below combinations:
2bk-6bk-2bk
6bk-2bk-6bk
2bk-2bk-6bk
6bk-2bk-2bk
2bk-6bk-2bk
I realized that, this miracle hybrid kick was creating resonance in rough water and current, helping to split the water when I get in trouble in the open water currents/streams. Since then I was becoming the 1st in general ranking in all public races across Turkey. Then I participated a race in Alanya where European elite marathon swimmers compete, I saw that I am nothing, they were swimming the 5K 59 minutes I was swimming 1:14, in Turkish swimmers ranking I again became the first but actually it didnt make me happy, I surrendered myself to despair. I knew that I couldnt swim sub 1:00, but at least it should be sub 1:10.

Since then I have been trying different variations to find the true pattern for myself. I am open to new ideas, can tr and evaluate everything.

Swimming around 1:22-1:24/100m pace is not satisfactory for me in 5K. I can manage this with my non-kick+high cadance technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLKTfDCWDF0
But this is my limit, not holding any potential for further progression. I must do something special.

I love swimming but this love can sometimes turns to hate, I have tried to quit swimming many times, but any other sport isnt giving me the same pleasure, hate dryland workouts for me they are really waste of them while water is there waiting for you, none of them is serving me the relaxation of the water.

I have the intention of quitting the lesson with Serkan and continue by myself, he is just saying our mistakes isnt offering any drills or exercises to correct, I also know my mistakes, the important is not knowing, but correcting through sometthing(a drill and equipment of etc). I think for a while taking of the watch/tempo trainer and only doing 6-1-6 and 6-3-6 drills without focusing on the pace by also using paddles and fins will be helpful for refining my technique. My heart says that I shall better only rely on the swim smooth methodology. I am planning to do the following workout plan for 1 month, in SCM, then according to my progression I will decide... if @22 pace starts to become easy, then push myself for the @22-@20 paces:

4 weeks x {

Session1: Total 3400m:
400 freestyle 6-1-6 drill with fins+paddles
400 freestyle 6-3-6 drill with fins+paddles
18x100m freestyle, R:10sec (tempo trainer: @24-@22)
16x50m complex(25m butterfly + 25m backstroke) R:10sec

Session2: Total 3600m:
400 freestyle 6-1-6 drill with fins+paddles
400 freestyle 6-3-6 drill with fins+paddles
10x200m freestyle, R:20sec (tempo trainer: @24-@22)
16x50m 25m complex(25m butterfly + 25m backstroke) R:10sec

Session3: Total 3600m:
400 freestyle 6-1-6 drill with fins+paddles
400 freestyle 6-3-6 drill with fins+paddles
5x400m freestyle, R:40sec (tempo trainer: @24-@22)
16x50m 25m complex(25m butterfly + 25m backstroke) R:10sec

Session4: Total 3400m:
400 freestyle 6-1-6 drill with fins+paddles
400 freestyle 6-3-6 drill with fins+paddles
3x600m freestyle, R:60sec (tempo trainer: @24-@22)
16x50m complex(25m butterfly + 25m backstroke) R:10sec

}

Take it easy smootharnie, thanks again.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:31 am

Thanks for the sharing NC. Have you read Swim Smooth's book? If not, I really recommend it because I find your story quite similar to Paul Newsome's one. He as well went from being a pool swimmer to a national triathlete to a marathon swimmer. He also converted from a smooth type (with longish stroke, 6bk and sub 70SPM cadence) to a swinger (2bk, over 80SPM) during his English Channel training. Since this stroke conversion he wasn't able to go under 60s on the 100m any more but he became faster in all the distances from 400m and up. In particular he mentions 18:08 over 1500m and 1:05 over 5k with his swinger stroke (which is similar to your current rounded stroke, and he also has a similar body structure and same age). Could you be satisfied by 1:05 over 5k? If so, Paul is a proof that this is achievable with a swinger stroke (and training hard but not as hard as an elite swimmer would do, since Paul also has a full time job and a young family). Curiously enough, he also seems to never do any usrpt or speed oriented training - I wonder how he can be so fast by doing only aerobic and threshold sets.
That's not so say of course that you shouldn't try to rebuild your stroke if you feel like it. There are many shades of grey (50?) between black and white. The same applies from swinger to smooth imho.

Cheers,
Salvo
Other SS forum members and I are also on swim.palstani.com

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:14 pm

Hi Salvo,
I havent read the Swim Smooth book, I watched master class DVD 4 years ago, it has changed my mind. If you send me SS book's direct link I can order it.

Yeah, sub 1:10 for 5K satisfies me!
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Location: Rome, Italy

Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby s.sciame » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:21 pm

here you are:

https://www.amazon.com/Swim-Smooth-Comp ... mooth+book

I first read the book a few years ago and, a few months later, watched the Catch Masterclass DVD. Some contents of course are overlapped, anyway I liked the book more because I found it more complete. For instance the book reports some "stories" and comments which are nice to read if not enlightening sometimes.

Hope you'll like it!

Salvo
Other SS forum members and I are also on swim.palstani.com

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:50 pm

Hi Salvo,
Thanks for the information.
----------------

22.11.2016 - LCM (Evening Session - 6500m)
6000m non stop freestyle drills with paddles+fins
(50m 6-1-6, 50m 6-3-6)
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

smootharnie
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby smootharnie » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:59 pm

what do you consider your mistakes now?

I was rather curious ro see the effect of returning to your classic high gear swimming. ;)

We agree there is some improvement possible in your propulsion technique.
To my eyes you have some non optimal mix of high rev arm stroke style and long 6Bk style.
It seems you have to move the upperbody more to drive it into traction and oomph that lies a bit further upfront compared to your current rear end oomphh and I doubt you have the strength to hold your paddle vertical and in high drag shape required for it.
Driving your body over the catch does help here and thats whats missing a bit as far as I can see.
Thats the basic powersource in combination with the strokestyle.

Besides that, there is the straightforward pure underwater mechanics of the arm moving through the water in an optimal manner.
This is the easiest part to check.
Film yourself underwater and take a good hard honest look and compare to the action of shellyTS.
99% chance that you will see improvement possibilities.
There is little discussion about whats optimal here. This is the first low hanging fruit.
Film with and without paddles , relaxed and at full sprint speed, Where does it break down?

I was serious about asking where your percieved reaction point lies if you recover your arms in a ballistic way into an high speed forward arm entry.
Where do you drive this action from when the arm is in the first part of the recovery?

As a dril to break free of old patterns, maybe fun to try to swim exactly as the young Phelps. Watch how he anchors and throws his body over his anchor point. The most obvious when he gets tired and digs deep into his basic swim mechanism when he swims toward the finish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjVDftnBq04

dont know if you ever done this drill.
NOT moving the body like one unit but rotaing shoulder relative to hips.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSaoMJnBTOQ

Shoulder roll on hip roll isnt limited to shoulder driven swimmers.
So its a drill usable for all swimmers.
Image

Image

why do so many people have a dropped elbow after a long extension?
What are they doing from arm entry to start of pull with their shoulders and their hip rotation?
Compare Phelps and Thorpes action with this guys action.
Who is using more total body and core muscles between shoulders and hips?
Who sets up these core muscles and prepares his paddle to the following extra action from these muscles to twist and pull this paddle back?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feUhyCklHL0<
his hip rotates further than his shoulder so he only has his shoulder muscles in the shoulder region itself to start his catch and pull. Than its waiting for problems..... and a dropped elbow is the result.
Hip drive taken too far.
Speaking a bit from personal experience, influenced from all that hip drive talk and now trying to keep those hips more stable with more shoulder roll.
I think your propulsion has a tiny tiny bit of this problem too but cant tell for sure from your footage.
GO to the new swimforum, called ....... THE SWIM FORUM......swim.palstani.com

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nightcrawler
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Re: Nightcrawler's 2017 Season

Postby nightcrawler » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:08 am

Hi everyone,

I love you all, you have attention to my workouts and progression, this is motivating me.

I have only 6 hours a week for swimming, that's all, nothing more. I dont want to be an article writer or a feedbacker here. I am fed up with tons of youtube or any other videos. I dont need to know what others do, bacause I have already done "at least once" many of them in my swimming life. I am in need of a drill or a hidden hint to swim 4 seconds faster pace(per 100m), thats it. I dont want my mind be confused.

As Cottmiler do, I want to keep it simple stupid and easy. If anyone, show me one thing that will make me faster, not more.
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion


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