Breath control

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Don Wright
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Re: Breath control

Postby Don Wright » Tue May 07, 2013 7:20 am

Hi "ShelleyS"!

Glad you've found the answer! I am still "wavering" over the breathing problem, trying to follow the SS advice to make exhalation a gentle sighing action. Am still struggling to successfully do 2x25m of FC and end up in a fit state to do more, and the largest part of the problem is this breath control business. Because of that I favour 3-stroke bilateral 'cos it gives me more time for exhalation, but putting more "go" into things requires quicker O2 intake, so am forced to do 2-arm-stroke unilateral - but that can lead to insufficient exhalation - as you found out! At present - as the need arises - am switching between the usual unilateral 2nd armstroke inhalation and a 4th arm stroke inhalation (which gives me "oodles" of time for gentle exhalation and more time to concentrate on what the arms/legs are doing!). Have tried doing a final "last-moment explosive" exhalation after a "gentle" phase, but by the time the next swim session comes around, I tend to forget and it's like learning how to exhale in water all over again - if only it were as easy as exhaling on dry land! :(

However, having read of your delight in finding the answer - I will persevere with the "gentle" phase then a final "explosive" phase for the exhalation. I think fellow members "woody" and "Harrybeardie" have been down this route successfully, but they are also doing the Ruth Kayzee's technique to clock up more laps, by switching to another more relaxed stroke for a short while when a breathing problem develops doing FC, then reverting to FC. I must admit - especially if they read this!!! :? - that I have stopped trying Ruth Kayzee's idea for a while :o , 'cos "gavinp" will be video-ing my efforts soon, and he just wants me to do 2 lengths of FC , have a rest, then another 2 lengths - sounds easy to most I know - but given my age/fitness, I want to be able to do it more easily than at present, and be in a fit state to "push on" doing much more. The video-ing session is set for 12th May, "gavinp" will I hope put bit's of my efforts in a viewable clip - for me to put a "link" in a post on the old "Non-perpetual swimming" topic - so that should be "interesting" :roll:

Bye / Don

ShelleyS
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Breath control

Postby ShelleyS » Tue May 07, 2013 8:08 am

Hi Don

I'm about to head to the pool to give it a go. I had a SS workshop last Nov and it was brilliant. The filming really helped me see where I was going wrong and that I wasn't doing what I thought I was! Have you tried swimming with fins to raise your legs and take the pressure off? I was using my legs too much and that wasn't helping with the breath. Also a pull buoy really helps and hand paddles to strengthen the arms. Yes to doing a different stroke, I opt for BS which I can easily do and keep doing, no probs with breath there! Gentle sigh is good, but my prob was that actually, I wasn't breathing properly! I was holding on to breath and taking in more. Best for us not to think about it, but to just do it and see what happens!

Ruth Kayzee...don't know about her (should I?). Will check her out.

Good luck! I shall report back in a few hours...

Shelley

Don Wright
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Re: Breath control

Postby Don Wright » Tue May 07, 2013 3:45 pm

Hi "ShelleyS"!

I got Ruth's surname wrong, (and it wasn't Woody or Harry that discovered it anyway, although they "caught on" to to the idea). The web site link is : -

http://ruthkazez.com/ZeroTo1mile.html

but I was trying the "Preamble" even though am not a beginner : -

http://www.ruthkazez.com/swimming/Zerot ... -zero.html

Am not sure if the idea of likening the alveoli in the lungs to the bubbles in bubble-wrap is medically sound - but it's an interesting idea. I was interspersing lengths of FC with lengths of English back stroke - but I have to admit that after putting some "beef" into the FC lengths, then my body would have liked to do more of that for recuperation, instead of the strenuous FC length that was next on the menu!

Bye / Don

ShelleyS
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Breath control

Postby ShelleyS » Tue May 07, 2013 4:00 pm

Thanks for this Don. Will check out.

It worked for me in the pool this morning...I am ecstatic! Now I can really start to improve!

Huge thanks.

Shelley

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Annie Swing Smooth
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Re: Breath control

Postby Annie Swing Smooth » Tue May 28, 2013 4:52 pm

ShelleyS wrote:Okay, so having been in a 25m indoor pool all winter and slightly improved on my breath control, but SLIGHTLY, I am now back in my 50m outdoor pool and still having probs. So I googled and I found the problems to my breathing which may be the key for some of you. This is taken from the EffortlessSwimming site, who I credit! It's the bit about breathing out just before you take a fresh lungful of air!

'The most important aspect of breathing technique is the breath out. The reason most swimmers choke on water is because they blow out all of their air too early or too late. The swimmer should breath to the side of the recovery arm (the arm which is out of the water) and take a big breath of air. As the head enters the water, begin blowing a small amount of air out of both the nose and the mouth. Continue doing this until just before you take your next breath. As you go to breath again let all your air out quickly through your nose and mouth just before you take that next breath. Remember that last sentence and your breathing problems should be fixed.'

I tried it today. It worked. I wasn't blowing out all the air BEFORE I took another breath, which meant I was holding on to bad air (Co2) while taking in more...no wonder I was getting out of breath and my core hurt! Takes a little time to get your head around it, but it worked for me and I am so excited I can't wait to get back in the water! See how you get on.

I may have missed this in the Swim Smooth book, but the Effortlessswimming site made it absolutely clear to me, and I instantly knew where I was going wrong.


Hi ShellyS

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm glad you've been able to improve! Here at Swim Smooth we recommend breathing out as if you're sighing, you may have tried this in the 'sink down' exercise in our book? Breathing out in this way does not keep excess air stored in the lungs, therefore reducing the risk of elevating the chest and hence then getting sinking bum and legs, excess drag etc etc. Keeping your out breaths like a relaxed sigh (not forceful) will greatly improve your relaxation in the water (see p.32 in the book). Aim to always be breathing out smoothly, unless you're taking a breath in. You could also try the bubble bubble breathe mantra and exercise, this will also really help improve your exhalation and development of bilateral breathing technique.

I hope this helps and good luck!
Swim Smooth Coach and Project Leader
Swimming, Triathlon & Open Water Coach

for the latest Swim Smooth gossip follow me @SwimSmoothAnnie and @swimsmooth

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Annie Swing Smooth
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Re: Breath control

Postby Annie Swing Smooth » Tue May 28, 2013 5:02 pm

You may have already, but try:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/exhalation.html

Good luck!
Swim Smooth Coach and Project Leader
Swimming, Triathlon & Open Water Coach

for the latest Swim Smooth gossip follow me @SwimSmoothAnnie and @swimsmooth

Tinman
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Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 8:01 am

Re: Breath control

Postby Tinman » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:23 am

Hi ShellyS

Have you tried increasing your stroke rate ?
I ask this as my experience when I switched to Bi-lateral breathing was that I was not getting air into my lungs as quickly as I needed it.
I lifted my stroke rate a bit and breathing became much more comfortable, without, to my surprise any added fatigue. I think that the increase in oxygen to my muscles offset any extra effort caused by the increased stroke rate.

Tinman

ShelleyS
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Re: Breath control

Postby ShelleyS » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:30 pm

Tinman, I think you could be right...thank you. Will give it a go tomorrow and come back to you.

ShelleyS
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Breath control

Postby ShelleyS » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:42 pm

Ok, with fins on as recommended by SS, I did 10 x 50 on Monday non stop - and 12 today. And 2 without fins - none of which I have done before. It wasn't my breathing, it was because I was going to fast - not enough stamina - not too slow. I tried slowing down and it worked. Got into a steady rhythm, I breathe bilaterally anyway, so that is good. I could have cried with joy! I'm trying to build up with fins while also doing less lengths without - and it seems to be working. It's a real breakthrough for me. I have tried everything. I could have kept going today, but after 60 mins in the gym and a coldish outdoor unheated pool...I left on a high. And I'm not as young as I used to be...although quite often I think I am still 33! Thanks for all the advice and tips, I got there in the end! :P

ShelleyS
Posts: 16
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Re: Breath control

Postby ShelleyS » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:20 pm

Okay I have finally sorted my breathing thanks to swim smooth Annie! I was using my legs far too much - FAR too much. This explains it so clearly, and for the first time I don't get puffed. I've also dropped 9 kilos working out in the gym, have moved up to advanced pilates, and my upper body strength has more than doubled, making me use that part of my body to propel and the legs to basically do what Annie says! Getting the right balance of leg use is hard, but I'd like to get a Tempo trainer to sort my stroke beat. Anyway, here is the link! Hope it works for you the way it worked for me. It's been almost a year since I did my 'boot camp' with swim smooth and I did my first mile a few weeks ago...I never thought I would.

http://www.feelforthewater.com/2013/08/ ... -kick.html

Adolfsmith69
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Re: Breath control

Postby Adolfsmith69 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:27 am

I am not a coach or guide,Without at least decent swimming technique, you will always be limited in your ability to go fast for longer distances. This is an absolute. By decent technique, I mean that more of your energy is directed to moving you forward rather then pushing you backward, to the side, underwater, etc. Teaching yourself reasonably proficient and better technique is difficult but not impossible,

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Annie Swing Smooth
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Re: Breath control

Postby Annie Swing Smooth » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:55 am

ShelleyS wrote:Okay I have finally sorted my breathing thanks to swim smooth Annie! I was using my legs far too much - FAR too much. This explains it so clearly, and for the first time I don't get puffed. I've also dropped 9 kilos working out in the gym, have moved up to advanced pilates, and my upper body strength has more than doubled, making me use that part of my body to propel and the legs to basically do what Annie says! Getting the right balance of leg use is hard, but I'd like to get a Tempo trainer to sort my stroke beat. Anyway, here is the link! Hope it works for you the way it worked for me. It's been almost a year since I did my 'boot camp' with swim smooth and I did my first mile a few weeks ago...I never thought I would.

http://www.feelforthewater.com/2013/08/ ... -kick.html


So glad to hear my advice helped you! Keep up the good work!
Swim Smooth Coach and Project Leader
Swimming, Triathlon & Open Water Coach

for the latest Swim Smooth gossip follow me @SwimSmoothAnnie and @swimsmooth

Adolfsmith69
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Re: Breath control

Postby Adolfsmith69 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:57 pm

Annie Swing Smooth wrote:
ShelleyS wrote:Okay I have finally sorted my breathing thanks to swim smooth Annie! I was using my legs far too much - FAR too much. This explains it so clearly, and for the first time I don't get puffed. I've also dropped 9 kilos working out in the gym, have moved up to advanced pilates, and my upper body strength has more than doubled, making me use that part of my body to propel and the legs to basically do what Annie says! Getting the right balance of leg use is hard, but I'd like to get a Tempo trainer to sort my stroke beat. Anyway, here is the link! Hope it works for you the way it worked for me. It's been almost a year since I did my 'boot camp' with swim smooth and I did my first mile a few weeks ago...I never thought I would.

http://www.feelforthewater.com/2013/08/ ... -kick.html


So glad to hear my advice helped you! Keep up the good work!


thanks for the Tips Any benefit to doing the wall kicking or torpedo kicking with a snorkel on?

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Annie Swing Smooth
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Re: Breath control

Postby Annie Swing Smooth » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:09 pm

Yes definitely!
Swim Smooth Coach and Project Leader
Swimming, Triathlon & Open Water Coach

for the latest Swim Smooth gossip follow me @SwimSmoothAnnie and @swimsmooth

Adolfsmith69
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Re: Breath control

Postby Adolfsmith69 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:51 pm

Annie Swing Smooth wrote:Yes definitely!

yeah follow :) i read your all posts

Adolfsmith69
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Re: Breath control

Postby Adolfsmith69 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:02 am

Harrybeardie wrote:Hi shelly, see thread women and sinking, basically I couldnt sink, then discovered that if you bend forward head and arms down your breath just falls out and you sink, I end up on my knees, it has really helped my breathing. Harry :)

Thanks Harry i will try!!

ShelleyS
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Re: Breath control

Postby ShelleyS » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:46 am

Hi Harry

I can't find that thread, do you know exactly what it's called or have you a link to it? Thanks!

Draven4545
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Re: Breath control

Postby Draven4545 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:58 pm

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