questions from a bambino

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yellowfin
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questions from a bambino

Postby yellowfin » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:03 am

I would like to ask some questions that have been bothering me. Since I swim very slowly I'm obviously a bambino. I would like to improve somehow. I read on the SwimSmooth page(s) and some other posts on this forum that bambinos have "no support for the lead arm". Does this mean that the lead arm doesn't stay out in front of the swimmer but is continuously moving? Other parts of the website say that if your lead arm stays out in front then you're an overglider. It says that it shouldn't stay out in front. I don't see how you can both leave the lead arm out in front and not leave the lead arm out in front.

Another dumb question: what do you mean by "needs OOMPH". Does this mean "when pushing your stroking arm backward push really hard"? Does it mean "get your stroke rate up"? Both? Something else?

Sorry for the dumb questions. I feel like I'll never get beyond the bambino phase, and I'll never gain enough confidence to be a "Smooth".

Thanks!

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gavinp
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby gavinp » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:30 am

Hi yellowfin

No dumb questions here :P

Regards the 'no support on the lead arm', what this means is that new swimmers often lift their head rather than turn it to the side and will push down on the lead arm rather than having it relaxed and stretching out in front until it's time to engage the catch.

An overglider is someone who stretches forward with their lead arm, but then leaves it there for a second or so and glides. This is what is refered to as the dead spot as you are constantly stop/starting when gliding this way. The idea is to start your catch as soon as your lead arm is stretched out removing that dead spot and continuing your forward momentum.

Ooomph! yes, this refers to the power that you use when pushing through on your stroke. Bambinos in particular just 'move' the arm through the stroke cycle. To get more power you need to start moving your arm faster through the water at which point you will feel more force against the water as you push the arm/hand back. Your stroke rate will naturally be faster so dont think so much about that at this stage - just a stronger pull through on the stroke.

Also, as a Bambino your (possibly) never going to be a powerhouse so the key to getting faster and more efficient will be to improve your technique. Keep working on technique and once that's dialled in you will find that you will get faster naturally as your technique improves and the stroke rate will go up too.

Keep working at it and don't be too worried about being a Bambino. I consider myself to be somewhere between a male Bambino and a swinger and can happily do 1900m in 30min (could be better if I had time to train :roll: ). Just work with what you've got and you will improve week on week :D

Most of all. Have fun!
Swim Smooth accredited coach and
Northamptonshire based triathlon coach
http://www.trisomi.co.uk

yellowfin
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Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:46 pm

Re: questions from a bambino

Postby yellowfin » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:30 pm

Hi gavinp, thanks for your helpful response. I am thinking that by "the catch" you mean "after the lead arm stretches out and the hand tips over" just before the propulsion starts. That's what it feels like to me anyway.

So, about this "bambino" label. I thought that "bambino" meant "impossibly slow" and "has a lot of stroke problems" and "scared to get in the water". How can you be a bambino if you can swim 1900m in 30min AND be a swim coach? That doesn't match up with the "bambino" icon on the website (scared to get into the water)! I think that being a bambino forever wouldn't be so bad if you describe yourself as one too.

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gavinp
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby gavinp » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:44 am

yellowfin wrote:Hi gavinp, thanks for your helpful response. I am thinking that by "the catch" you mean "after the lead arm stretches out and the hand tips over" just before the propulsion starts. That's what it feels like to me anyway.

So, about this "bambino" label. I thought that "bambino" meant "impossibly slow" and "has a lot of stroke problems" and "scared to get in the water". How can you be a bambino if you can swim 1900m in 30min AND be a swim coach? That doesn't match up with the "bambino" icon on the website (scared to get into the water)! I think that being a bambino forever wouldn't be so bad if you describe yourself as one too.


Here's a good description of the catch from the website:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/catch.html

You are not a label! :D The swimsmooth types describe certain traits that people have and is a guide to help you improve - someone who is a kicktastic for instance will have very different goals to a smooth or a bambino. Dont put too much meaning on the label itself. Also, a bambino can be seen as a less powerfull Arnie...

As you may recall I put myself somewhere between a male bambino and a swinger. Paul and Adam have both met me and they would both agree that I am a scrawny chap (hence the bambino side), and i'm pretty handy in open water in a wetsuit - all technique and a fairly high stroke rate (and there's your swinger!)

SO, don't ever consider a bambino as weak or unable to improve, because you can! 8-)

Oh and the fact that I am a coach means I can help people learn/improve - it doesn't necessarily mean I can do it myself. As a for instance, I have an athlete who recently completed Ironman Austria. She did it in 2010 at a time of 13hrs 11min. This time she did it in 11hrs 51min :shock: A combination of dedication and smart training - BUT I could never do ithis kind of thing myself (at least not at this point in my life) :shock:

Most of all. Have fun!
Swim Smooth accredited coach and
Northamptonshire based triathlon coach
http://www.trisomi.co.uk

yellowfin
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby yellowfin » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:19 pm

Hi Gavin,

I've been on vacation and just got back into the pool. My husband and I have an underwater camera, so he did some videos for me yesterday to add to my collection from last april. Upon reviewing these videos, I can see that I totally fit the "bambino" category, I look just like the videos on the SwimSmooth site. The main thing that I can see is that my elbows droop. Yesterday we were in the pool with the camera and I consciously worked on keeping my elbows high throughout each stroke. I felt SO much more power in my stroke! I took about 3 seconds off of my 25yd time when I got my elbows up. I'm now so excited about something concrete to work on instead of just flailing around. I'm going to the pool to have fun with my elbows! A question: In order to get my elbows up, I have to rotate my shoulder/arm inward quite a lot. Is this the expected method to get your elbows higher? This seems similar to the motion used to do "thumb-first" hand entry, so I wonder if this is a problem even if I'm keeping my hand flat (not thumb-first).

Thanks for your helpful comments!

Jamez99
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby Jamez99 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:21 am

Thanks for your helpfulThank you for this great news and your article very happy it is very amazing .
can any one tell me that how can I jump with out any hesitation and fear?I feel some fesr while I am jumping into the water? thanks
"ONe Day I will be Part of your World.")

yellowfin
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby yellowfin » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:44 am

Hi jamez99

You may want to post your question as a new thread to get a response from the real coaches on the forum. I'm not a coach, but I'll be happy to give you my ideas. First, I don't think that you need to worry about hesitation. I think that everybody gets in the water differently. I hesitate, too! If you'd like to jump in with gay abandon, you may want to work up to it, do some practicing. Start by sliding into the water with a smile, work up to the "whoopee/SPLASH!" That said, you might also think about what is causing your hesitation and uncertainty and figure out what works for you to resolve those issues. I know what mine are! I usually take a minute sitting on the pool deck with my feet in the water getting used to the idea that it may be COLD! Then as I slide slowly in I discover that it's really quite refreshing, thank you! Then I'm off and swimming. The other day I was happy to see another (obviously) very experienced swimmer doing the same thing. He said "You'd think I'd know how to do this by now!" And then of course there was that other guy who jumped right in and was off.

I also don't like jumping in at the shallow end because my knees don't work so well and I don't like to do a hard landing. I can jump into the deep end because I know how much air I can hold for how long and I know (from practice) how deep I go.

Anyway, I hope that these comments are helpful and/or useful, and especially that Gavin will reply as well.

Jamez99
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby Jamez99 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:52 am

thanks you so much it is really helpfull for me now I'll try it and practice it and hope that I cover my weak side and soon I feel free from fear or hesitation
"ONe Day I will be Part of your World.")

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gavinp
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby gavinp » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:02 am

yellowfin wrote:Hi Gavin,

I've been on vacation and just got back into the pool. My husband and I have an underwater camera, so he did some videos for me yesterday to add to my collection from last april. Upon reviewing these videos, I can see that I totally fit the "bambino" category, I look just like the videos on the SwimSmooth site. The main thing that I can see is that my elbows droop. Yesterday we were in the pool with the camera and I consciously worked on keeping my elbows high throughout each stroke. I felt SO much more power in my stroke! I took about 3 seconds off of my 25yd time when I got my elbows up. I'm now so excited about something concrete to work on instead of just flailing around. I'm going to the pool to have fun with my elbows! A question: In order to get my elbows up, I have to rotate my shoulder/arm inward quite a lot. Is this the expected method to get your elbows higher? This seems similar to the motion used to do "thumb-first" hand entry, so I wonder if this is a problem even if I'm keeping my hand flat (not thumb-first).

Thanks for your helpful comments!


Hi yellowfin

Excellent! glad you are feeling some progress :D

You may be quite flat in the water (through your shoulders). Rotate through your hips. Your shoulders will follow at just the right amount needed. Your arm entry needs to be quite wide too. See the below for what I mean:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/rotation.html
Swim Smooth accredited coach and
Northamptonshire based triathlon coach
http://www.trisomi.co.uk

Adolfsmith69
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby Adolfsmith69 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:13 pm

gavinp wrote:
yellowfin wrote:Hi Gavin,

I've been on vacation and just got back into the pool. My husband and I have an underwater camera, so he did some videos for me yesterday to add to my collection from last april. Upon reviewing these videos, I can see that I totally fit the "bambino" category, I look just like the videos on the SwimSmooth site. The main thing that I can see is that my elbows droop. Yesterday we were in the pool with the camera and I consciously worked on keeping my elbows high throughout each stroke. I felt SO much more power in my stroke! I took about 3 seconds off of my 25yd time when I got my elbows up. I'm now so excited about something concrete to work on instead of just flailing around. I'm going to the pool to have fun with my elbows! A question: In order to get my elbows up, I have to rotate my shoulder/arm inward quite a lot. Is this the expected method to get your elbows higher? This seems similar to the motion used to do "thumb-first" hand entry, so I wonder if this is a problem even if I'm keeping my hand flat (not thumb-first).

Thanks for your helpful comments!


Hi yellowfin

Excellent! glad you are feeling some progress :D

You may be quite flat in the water (through your shoulders). Rotate through your hips. Your shoulders will follow at just the right amount needed. Your arm entry needs to be quite wide too. See the below for what I mean:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/rotation.html

Rotate hip is very Dificult for me :( plz tip me

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gavinp
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby gavinp » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:34 am

Adolfsmith69 wrote:Rotate hip is very Dificult for me :( plz tip me


You could try some land based excercises:

1) stand upright in front of a mirror and rotate through the hips to get the feeling. Watch yourself in the mirror to make sure it's the hips that are moving first - relax your shoulders and they will follow the rotation around.

2) lie down on your front arms outstretched and leave them there. Again rotate through the hips (as a note, the rotation should be around 45 degrees in the water but as it's an excercise to get the feel for the rotation it can be as big as you like). This will feel harder in this position.

3) again, from lying down begin to use your arms in a front crawl stroke. As your arm passes your head begin to rotate through the hip. this opens up your body into a nice streamline position (almost on your side or 45 degrees). when your arm is as far back as possible (i.e. at the end of the stroke) and you begin to bring it over the top bring your hip back to the ground.

You can see this movement in Mr Smooth if you study him closely:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/

Transfer this into your stroke by using a pull buoy initially (arms only) so that you can concentrate on the rotation and stroke timing.

Hope this helps a little and i'm sure there will be other suggestions too.

Have fun!
Swim Smooth accredited coach and
Northamptonshire based triathlon coach
http://www.trisomi.co.uk

yellowfin
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby yellowfin » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:46 pm

A useful tip from Swimsmooth is, while swimming, think about pushing your hip out of the way with your stroking arm. After you've practiced those great exercises from gavinp that might encourage good timing.

Have fun!

Adolfsmith69
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby Adolfsmith69 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:28 pm

i think this is a not useful exercise for i'm traying many times but but its not helpful for me.i tired this type of exercise and results is not.so give me more suggestion and some new exercise. hope u can understand

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gavinp
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Re: questions from a bambino

Postby gavinp » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:15 pm

Adolfsmith69 wrote:i think this is a not useful exercise for i'm traying many times but but its not helpful for me.i tired this type of exercise and results is not.so give me more suggestion and some new exercise. hope u can understand


It's something you will have to work on. It may take you a while to 'get it', but percevere and it will come.

If it still doesnt work for you then I would say the best thing for you to do is to go get another coach who can help look at your problem properly (there is only so much that can be done via a forum :? ). Some decent 1-2-1 or group coaching will help you to understand any points that you have difficulty with in your stroke - or is this for one of your swimmers?

Hope you find what you are looking for and importantly, have fun! :D
Swim Smooth accredited coach and
Northamptonshire based triathlon coach
http://www.trisomi.co.uk


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