Bambino breathing

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NMC
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Bambino breathing

Postby NMC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:06 am

A SS video analysis confirmed me as primarily Bambino. I note that the guidance says that Bambinos typically have breathing problems which is exactly my issue. I can't swim more than 35 metres despite having a technique that looks much more efficient than people who seem able to swim continuously all day long.

My question is why do bambinos have this problem and what can they do about it? Any advice welcomed as it's a problem I've been experiencing for several years and I just can't get past this issue despite having CV capability much greater than many of those who swim up and down.

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gavinp
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby gavinp » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:18 am

Hi

Did you ask this question when you had your SS video analysis done? if so, what was the reply?

As you have had this issue for a number of years I'm assuming that you swim alone and not with a club?

What is a typical swim session like for you (what would you do?) and how many times do you swim a week?

Do you have any ideas yourself as to the reason why this is (Psychologically) a barrier for you? Have you tried going beyond this point?
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NMC
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby NMC » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:14 pm

Thanks for your comments.

I didn't ask the question at video time although I had to make it clear I had this problem as I needed a short break between each 25 metre lap being videod. My videoing co'ach suggested the problem was drag making me slow but I know it is not just that.

Yes, I swim alone - local clubs only welcome younger potentially competitive swimmers.

I swim 250 to 300 metres in a session - each 25m lap separately with a break afterwards.
I swim 3 to 4 times a week - sometimes more as now when I'm in Mexico on holiday and have a beautiful outdoor pool to use.

Itis not I believe a pschoylogical barrier - I occasionally have tried 50 metres (2 laps) and at the end am despoertaely out of breath, heaving and gasping. I run 10Ks and never have anything likethat - it's like how you'd feel after sprinting flat out for a minute.

I am convinced (and have been for several years) that it something to do with my breathing - either not managing to breathe out enough or not having long enough to breathe in.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

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SolarEnergy
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby SolarEnergy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:09 pm

It's typically the combination of relying too much on kick (mainly due to extremely poor pulling efficiency) + elevating the head to breathe in which characterizes the Bambino swimmer in regard to the problem you raised.

The psychological to physical connection here is that if it was possible, several bambinos would prefer to swim without any contact with the water. This is why they feel that their head is never high enough whilst breathing in. The flutter kick is often a nervous inefficient one. It often translates their nervous state, ie unable to just kick back and relax. Hundreds of little nervous inefficient kicks + poor pulling and elevated head kills the ability to swim over prolonged distances.
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Charles G. Couturier, Canadian Swimming / Triathlon Coach

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gavinp
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby gavinp » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:01 am

You are very lucky to have a lovely outdoor swimming pool to swim in - i'm very jealous as it's getting pretty cold here in the UK!

Yep, Solar has explained it nicely :) it's pretty much what I was getting at. Did the video analysis show up a weakness in your kick efficiency and the raising of your head?
Swim Smooth accredited coach and
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NMC
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby NMC » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:49 pm

No, my kicking was not commented on at all in the videoing, and although my head position was not perfect when I breathed, it was not thought a major problem to work on at this stage.

I repeat that I am not out of breath due to excess effort as suggested. I am havig soime limited improvement by breathing out harder but am finding this difficult. By the way, I can swim 400-500 metres breaststroke without difficulty (no breathing issues!) so don't believe its a CV issue..

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gavinp
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby gavinp » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:30 am

Then what were you told to work on during/after your video analysis?

Would be good to see the video footage if at all possible?
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NMC
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby NMC » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:18 pm

Primarily to pull- I was simply bringing my arms/hands back without a pull as such- using my forearm as the lever.

I don't have the video here in Mexico and it will be 3 weeks or so before I'mhome but could post it then.

BambinoKate
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby BambinoKate » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:58 pm

Hi NMC!

I am new to Swimsmooth & am currently working through the Bambino Stroke improvement guide. I strongly recommend it! My response may not be very technical, but I know where you are coming from because I have been there myself for many years! When you say you have problems with breathing (which I use to have, but it's getting much better), do you mean that you find it hard to breathe in without getting a mouthful of water? Or do you hold your breath a little, so that you have to breathe out and in in the short time your mouth is clear of the water? I used to do both of these!

I found that the Swimsmooth mantra 'bubble, bubble, breathe' gave me a good rhythm to work with and got me bi-lateral breathing quite easily. Also, 'bubble bubble stretch' teaches you to really reach forward with the lead arm on the breathing stroke, which gives support from the water & facilitates the head to be turned better to take the breath. When I tried bilateral breathing previously, I always struggled breathing to my left, in that I wasn't turning my head sufficiently & ended up breathing water! I have also recently found that if I exhale through my nose for two strokes & inhale through my mouth I am much more aerobic & relaxed.

The other thing which makes breathing much easier for me is the rolling motion of the body in the water, which is also taught in the stroke improvement guide. I had always been told to stay as flat as possible in the water, to be streamlined, but it didn't work for me. Doing drills with fins or a pullbuoy allowed me to concentrate on my rhythm & breathing & has helped my confidence in the water.

I feel sure that if you were to invest in & download the Bambino guide & a few 'toys' - pullbuoy, fins etc - you will soon be zooming along! I am also quite fit CV wise - have been sporty all my life - but always been a rubbish swimmer! But this time I am going to crack it!

I hope this helps you. Have a great time in Mexico & enjoy the pool!

Kind regards,

Kate

NMC
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby NMC » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:27 am

Kate (and the others who've posted replies), many thanks for taking the time to give me the benefit of your experience and ideas - I really appreciate the help.

My breathing problem (so far as I know!) is not that I can't get a breath when I roll to do so, but that i reach a point after 25 metres where I am completely out of breath and gasping for air, as if I'd just run a 200m sprint.

Trying consciously to relax, breathing out more forcefully and ensuring my head stays horizontal when I breath all help but I still end up unable to speak for lack of breath after 30-35 metres.

I have a good level of CV fitness and I don't feel any soreness or loss of strength in my arms or legs.

I am confused by the bubble, bubble breath mantra since I assume I can't get all my breath out by just blowing bubbles and assuume I have to expel the air forcefully as I do when swimming breast stroke.

Any other ideas?

BambinoKate
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby BambinoKate » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:43 am

Hi NMC!

'Bubble, bubble, breathe' is about breathing rhythm. During the 'bubble, bubble' bit, you will exhale fully, but gently and steadily, in a steady stream, ready to inhale on the breathing stroke. This is obviously timed for bilateral breathing, when you breathe every third stroke. You don't mention how many strokes you take between breaths. I used to do two or four, always breathing to the right, as I explaned before, I couldn't get the breath properly on my left! But with a little practise, I am now breathing bilaterally & believe me, it is very comfortable when you get the timing right.

I would imagine that exhaling explosively into the water would be very tiring & not at all relaxing! Take the plunge & buy the guide. It's the best 17 euros I have ever spent on swimming!

Hasta luego!

Kate

BambinoKate
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby BambinoKate » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:55 am

Hi again!

Just thought of something else while I was hanging out the washing! What is your stroke rate like? I wonder if it is very high? One of my other toys (a Finis beeper) has taught me that my current stroke rate is around 54 strokes per minute. I can push up to 60 strokes per minute, but my stroke gets a bit raggedy after 56/57 spm. I am still experimenting! I could imagine that if you are stroking quickly without getting the full benefit of a lovely lungful of air regularly enough, you will tire rapidly. The other thing to try is to use a pullbuoy between your legs & don't kick at all. Just concentrate on a nice steady rhythm, and exhaling and inhaling. Maybe you are kicking too hard, very tiring. Try to swim a nice steady one stroke per second or slower, with the pullbuoy & see if it helps. If your stroke rate is high, don't be afraid to slow it down while you sort out your breathing technique. You can always speed it up later!

Keep experimenting and you will find out what works for you, I am sure. I have almost become a professional learner swimmer. I have been to countless courses & lessons for the past 30 years! But this time, with the aid of my guide & toys I will get there!

Let me know how you do!

Kate

aviatornorth
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby aviatornorth » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:55 pm

Kate is right. Sllooowww it all down. I too am working on this and 4 months ago was exactly as you described. Out of breath at the end of every 25. I've found that small fins really helped build the confidence to glide down the pool during the drills in the guide. I started focusing on the journey (down the pool) instead of getthereitis. Kind of like the 'walk in the park' mindset. Observe the little bubbles off your hands or look at the tiles going by. A mindful meditation of sorts. Sounds weird but it really calms things down. Also try the sink down drills. First at the shallow end and then at the deep end. The fact that these are a challenge for me (especially 3 in a row on 3 breaths in deep water) I think pin points part of my anxiety and probably not being as relaxed as one needs to be. Keep at it, all is coming (per a famous yogi)

fourstar
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby fourstar » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:46 pm

Hello NMC,
I would be interested to know how you are getting on as I think I have simalar problems to you :D

Aly
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby Aly » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:06 pm

Keen to hear any feed back from bambino,s and how long improvement took, I have been getting very frustrated with my swimming have been doing triathlons for 2 yrs now. Start from scratch with no sports back ground. I have been doing swim training in a club for 12 months , think iam getting slower. I have d,own load the bambino training guild. I am a good breaststroker in fact my breaststroke faster than freestyle...... Can anyone improve or are some people just not freestyles. Is it possible to breaststroke 3.8km round buselton jetty, under 2 hour .

BambinoKate
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby BambinoKate » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:43 pm

Hi Aly, I have been using the improvement guide off and on for about 5 months & have improved enormously. (I had 6 weeks away travelling & then later almost one month out with an ear infection which wouldn't budge, but now I am back in business! :D ) You have made the right decision in downloading the guide. Buy some 'toys' (fins, beeper etc) and do the drills consistently and you WILL improve! You sound to be a good swimmer anyway, whereas I was a complete wuss. I think 3 times a week doing the sessions is about right. When you can confidently do session 1, move onto session 2 & so on. It's taken me ages to conquer my fear of being under water (doing the 'sink downs'). I soon grasped the bilateral breathing & feel sure that if you follow the steps in the guide, you will too. Once you have mastered the breathing, you can go on to the next stage of getting better propulsion through the water.

Happy swimming!

Kate

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gavinp
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby gavinp » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:20 pm

Hi

Don't lose faith. If you can breastroke for two hours then you have the patience and tenacity to re-learn your frontcrawl. The plans you have downloaded will help you on your way :)

Might be a good idea to have a chat with your club coaches too. Don't know if you do any technique work with your club or are they just set sessions pumping out lengths? if the latter then this isn't going to help you improve your stroke is it.

You may want to consider having some 1-2-1 sessions with a private coach to set you on your way.

Above all, have fun!
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Northamptonshire based triathlon coach
http://www.trisomi.co.uk

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Annie Swing Smooth
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Re: Bambino breathing

Postby Annie Swing Smooth » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:50 am

BambinoKate wrote:Hi Aly, I have been using the improvement guide off and on for about 5 months & have improved enormously. (I had 6 weeks away travelling & then later almost one month out with an ear infection which wouldn't budge, but now I am back in business! :D ) You have made the right decision in downloading the guide. Buy some 'toys' (fins, beeper etc) and do the drills consistently and you WILL improve! You sound to be a good swimmer anyway, whereas I was a complete wuss. I think 3 times a week doing the sessions is about right. When you can confidently do session 1, move onto session 2 & so on. It's taken me ages to conquer my fear of being under water (doing the 'sink downs'). I soon grasped the bilateral breathing & feel sure that if you follow the steps in the guide, you will too. Once you have mastered the breathing, you can go on to the next stage of getting better propulsion through the water.

Happy swimming!

Kate


A***** answer Kate!

Aly I hope you find the guide useful, follow the steps and repeat the sessions as often as you need. You'll soon get really used to exhaling comfortably and enjoy being in the water more. :D
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