for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

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s.sciame
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for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:14 pm

One of my favourite sets is the classic SS Red Mist 10x400m descending. Pros: it's a good indicator of current shape, gives confidence and offers plenty of time and laps to focus on technique and assess what works best over distance. Cons: it does not include fast swimming and it may be boring (especially during the first slower reps).

Here is a valid alternative from Gerry Rodrigues (for ow swimmers) which includes fast swimming and maybe it's funnier too:

round 1: 100 easy, 100 IronMan effort, 100 easy, 100 fast
round 2: 100 easy, 200 IM effort, 100 easy, 100 fast
round 3: 100 easy, 300 IM effort, 100 easy, 100 fast
...
round 6: 100 easy, 600 IM effort, 100 easy, 100 fast (3.9k so far, like a Red Mist)
round 7: 100 easy, 700 IM effort, 100 easy, 100 fast (4.9k so far)
round 8: 100 easy, 800 IM effort, 100 easy, 100 fast (tot 6k)

All with 10s rests between reps (no additional rest between rounds). Fast is not all out but faster than threshold pace. I'll try it tomorrow, I think I'll stop at round 6 or 7 according to my available time budget.

Hope ow swimmers and Red Mist fans will like it!
Salvo
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s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:51 pm

I did it! Holding target pace on that last 700m at round 7 was really really tough, but I knew that if I had succeeded it would have made my day, so I gave all I had :)
By the way, G.Rodrigues actually talked about IM effort, not IM pace, anyway I wanted to commit to a precise target pace as I do when I swim a Red Mist.
So, being my estimated threshold pace 1:35/100m, I committed to hold 1:40 on IM reps and 1:30 on fast reps. For the easy reps I didn't set any target pace, those 100s were supposed to just recover, stretch and get ready for the next challenging rep. For the record I swam those easy reps in 1:45-1:48, the IM reps in 1:40 or slightly faster and the fast 100s in 1:30-1:32.

Very rewarding set, I'll repeat it over time and I would recommend it to any distance or open water swimmer (Gerry obviously knows what he talks about). It's a good way to train different gears and change pace frequently (fast reps add more fun!) as one would do during an open water race.

Cheers,
Salvo

PS: thanks Ducky for the animal: for sure not a shark, maybe one of these ;)
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby Adivio » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:06 pm

Excellent, well done Salvo! I was actually waiting for your report as you made me curious with this training session.
I am now planning to try it out myself as it looks very interesting. I especially like the change in speed it includes.

By the way, how did you keep the pace on target? I guess it is rather difficult to fiddle with the tempo trainer with such short breaks.

Adrian
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s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:36 pm

Adivio wrote:
By the way, how did you keep the pace on target? I guess it is rather difficult to fiddle with the tempo trainer with such short breaks.

Adrian


Hi Adrian, I set TT in mode 2 at 1:40 (ie one beep expected every 100m) and didn't change setting anymore. During the easy and fast reps I simply ignored TT and checked my times (and breaks) at the pace clock. At the start of each IM rep I pressed the reset button to synch and then paced as evenly as possible to hear the beep every 4 lengths (I do the same in Red Mist sets). Used in this way, the TT also helps me counting laps.

Enjoy the set and let me know!
Salvo
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby woody » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:25 am

Looks a great set I do the red mist every Monday built it up from 10 x 300 to 400 a few weeks ago. but with one beep rests having it beep at 25m pace . I particularly like the way you leave the beeper set and ignore on slower or faster lengths as it does disturb my swimming fiddling with it during the set.
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby woody » Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:31 pm

First time I did the 10 x 400 I was exhausted both physically and mentally. It was a couple of years ago prob took me close to 2 hrs. I said never again so backed it back to 10 x 300 which was hard but do able.
It's only last five weeks I have made myself do the 10 x400 it's 1 hr 35 mins at last weeks pace but been coming down each week as I re adjust the beeper .25 secs .
Woody
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:55 pm

Ducky wrote:you'd have to tempt me with with a mexican all u can eat/free beer prize to do that workout at the very least and that's just to get me to listen, not actually get in the pool and do it.


But you did an Ironman, didn't you?
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Mike A
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby Mike A » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:03 pm

Ducky wrote:i bet other than nightcrawler and myabe 1% of the people on this board other than the swim smooth guys have even done HALF that in a workout.

Seriously? I don't think I did any workouts below 3k all through the summer. Did a lot of 5k pool sessions and 6k+ open water ones. Currently only doing 2k's, but that's because it's about all I have time for at the moment.
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s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:06 pm

Mike A wrote:I don't think I did any workouts below 3k all through the summer. Did a lot of 5k pool sessions and 6k+ open water ones. Currently only doing 2k's, but that's because it's about all I have time for at the moment.


Hi Mike, so will you give this set a try? With these numbers you're a good candidate at completing round 8 :twisted:

Salvo
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby woody » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:52 pm

Feels good being part of the1% but at the slow end of it !
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1429177425
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby woody » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:22 pm

Cheers Ducky . I do a bit of motor trade consultancy and find that's the one thing they need to believe.
woody
Everything is won or lost inside your own head.

The best time to learn to swim was a long time ago the second best time is today

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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby nightcrawler » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:03 pm

Congragulations... What was your time for the 1000m?
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:28 pm

this thread is getting viral Ducky :D
By the way, I'm totally unaware of how a sprint practice looks like: could you share a sample session you typically do with your squad?
Another question: you moved from distance swimming to pure sprint (50y and 100y) directly, right? Why not race the 500 or 200 for instance?

@Nightcrawler: today I felt strong and set a PB on the 400m beating your lifelong worst 400 by 1s (hit 6:03), yes yes yes! ;)

Salvo
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby Adivio » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:37 am

Hi Salvo,

I tried your set today. I have never done the Red mist in the past, instead I have been doing many pink mists last season.

About the today's set:
- long course (50m)
- IM speed: 1:43
- Fast speed: 1:37
- Recovery: 1:50
- Used the HUUB kick pants :)
- Beeper set to beep every 25m for better feedback

Due to time constrains and actually running out of energy I had to stop after round 5. All in all I swam 3km,
exactly as in the pink mist :). The last 500 IM was really tough and missed the beep on the last 200m of it.

I definitely prefer this set to the pink mist. Its variety makes time fly faster.

Adrian
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s.sciame
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Location: Rome, Italy

Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:06 pm

Good job Adrian, take it really easy on the easy 100s and get ready for round 6!

Salvo
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s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:38 pm

Ducky wrote:guess who will 'never' be doing red mist sets? been out of the loop the last few days caressing my 2 shattered toes. the support wheel on my thankfully empty trailer gave away when i was wheeling it into a shed had it been loaded i coulda been in trouble. can't even do a toe flick kick it hurts so badly so i put a kickboard b/t my legs no flip turns obviously. water feels good on the swollen foot though. depending on how long this foot is out of ocmmission i might be back doing threshold sets b/c there is no kicking happending for a while!


Sorry to hear it Ducky, hope you'll recover soon!

Salvo
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nightcrawler
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby nightcrawler » Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:58 pm

Hi Ducky,
Wish you get well soon. Dont worry about the kick, I have been swimming like a paralysed (without kicking anymore) for a long time, makes no difference and moreover provides advantage in distances over 400 meters. Absolutely you should go to an ortopedist asap, dont neglect it.
Good luck!
Emrah
Once something goes into motion, it stays in motion, the process itself feeds the fire!
Ref: http://self-inspiration.com/video/uncomfortable-vs-exhaustion

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Mike A
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby Mike A » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:25 am

Best of luck for a speedy recovery. Good to see you're keeping the engine active. I'm afraid I tend to lose motivation when I get an injury or illness - and it only takes a few weeks to lose a lot of fitness!
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s.sciame
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby s.sciame » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:41 pm

Hey Ducky, here is another reason to do a bit of "boring" stuff:

http://theraceclub.com/aqua-notes/swim- ... freestyle/

Since the aerobic energy system (aerobic respiration or oxidative phosphorylation) comes into play at the end of the 50 meters, sprinters must also develop this system to some degree.
...
Typically, sprinters will devote the earliest part of the season to developing a stronger aerobic system and the middle and end of the season toward building the anaerobic systems.


Moreover, while recovering you could still swim some fast 25's w/o kicking just to keep the upper body trained, no? Or spend some time refining your catch & pull mechanics.

Salvo
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Re: for ow swimmers and Red Mist fans

Postby Adivio » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:17 am

About the today's set:
- long course (50m)
- IM speed: 1:43
- Fast speed: 1:37
- Recovery: 1:50
- Used the HUUB kick pants :)
- Beeper set to beep every 25m for better feedback

Due to time constrains and actually running out of energy I had to stop after round 5. All in all I swam 3km,
exactly as in the pink mist :). The last 500 IM was really tough and missed the beep on the last 200m of it.


I repeated the set today with same setup but better results this time :). I managed to stay with the beep for the entire 5th round 500m
and there was still some gas left in the tank.

What shall I do next time? Try to swim one more round or increase the pace? This is the question.

Adrian
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